Woodford Patient Capital Share Discussion Threads

[sweet karolina2] 18/8/2019 16:09

How deeply involved was Woody in what seems to have gone on at BUR?

The CFO left in unusual circumstances shortly after what appears to be a move to cover up BUR's fraud at INVESCO investee Napo and BUR has already spoken about how conflicted INVESCO were in this matter. Will Miriam spill the beans and throw everyone under the bus to save her own neck?

All the RNS informing of her departure says is "Miriam Connole, Burford's CFO, has left Burford to pursue other opportunities."

How many other senior management / directors leaving announcements have not come with the obligatory we would like to thank and wish all the best type blah and have not been indicative of a serious bust up of some form (even when you get the blah it does not mean all is well).

[jonwig] 18/8/2019 14:54

Woody ... the one that got away!

"Silicon Valley eyes Ultrahaptics, the £150m Bristol-based tech firm that lets you ‘feel’ virtual objects"

In 2015, the firm met with investors with the target of raising £5m in funding. That all changed following a meeting with investment fund manager Neil Woodford.

Woodford encouraged Ultrahaptics to increase its fundraising target, and Carter recalls a “fun” meeting with the fund manager. “He was like: ‘no, no, more,’” Carter says.

The company eventually closed the round at over £10m, doubling its original goal. Woodford acquired a 20pc stake in the business, but sold his shares earlier this year after he began to face criticism for the level of his illiquid investments in unlisted firms.

Since Woodford’s backing, Ultrahaptics has found a wide range of potential customers for its technology. Some ideas are “really absolutely crazy”, Carter says, describing a research project that uses Ultrahaptics for targeted drug delivery, turning on tiny robots using ultrasound as they travel through the bloodstream.

Carter is also keen to use mid-air tech to replace touchscreens in public places such as hospitals to stop the spread of superbugs.

Have any Silicon Valley firms come knocking on Ultrahaptics’ door, keen to snap up the British firm? Carter smiles before reciting a practised line: “We are focused on growing the company to be as big as it possibly can be.”

[spectoacc] 18/8/2019 14:01

@ltcm1 - it only trades where it does because of a chronically small free float IMO. Woody can look forward to a huge hit when he tries to sell - can't see Barnett buying any, his denouement is still ahead.

@Topvest - "They are all slightly edgy / dodgy companies who talk a good game, but have a slight shortcoming in respect of their ethics and behaviour". Fat Bloke Finance!

[buywell3] 18/8/2019 13:59

buywell would like to say

'' thank you Mr Block ''

buywell calls BUR to 400p

[diku] 18/8/2019 10:04

What no pictures?...

[ltcm1] 18/8/2019 10:02

I would be very wary of HONY.

Their blurb said:

The listing will be the latest in a string of new vehicles established to take advantage of the withdrawal of mainstream banks from some areas of specialist financing.

City sources said that Honeycomb would be distinguished as an investment proposition by its ability to analyse data to price risk more effectively, aided by technology and new analytical tools.


If you look at all the problems with challenger banks and peer to peer lending it does not bode well for HONY. The lending they have done looks too risky in comparison with the rates offered, that was the case with Metro at least.

Probably another of Woodford's disasters I suspect.

[jonwig] 18/8/2019 05:58

@ Psycho - "a few weeks back": makes you a bit late to the party!

In a literal sense, no-one is "voluntarily" invested in WEIF. And if/when we get a severe bear market, the holders will only be able to watch helplessly as their imprisoned wealth drains away.

[psychochomper] 18/8/2019 00:22

The only people still voluntarily invested in any of NW’s funds come into three main categorise:

1. Plain stupid, given the quantity of information made available the last weeks.
2. Emotionally unable to come to terms with the loss. But rather than being plain stupid as in 1. above, are paralysed by disbelief, cannot work out what to do other than hoping for a miraculous deliverance.
3. Delegate their investment decisions to hooray-Henry morons. The latter being people who value long lunches, high fees and annual reviews over hard-headed investment analysis.

There’s still a further 25% to fall on WEIF, 15% on WIFF and >50% on WPCT considering the current state of affairs. So there’s still time to rescue something out of this wreckage by acknowledging the folly. If such people can.

I did write that this was all doomed, doomed I tell you, a few weeks back. I hope I saved someone part of their savings.

[williamcooper104] 17/8/2019 23:10

To be fair - if you had shorted every company that Woodford invested in I think you'd have done well

[topvest] 17/8/2019 17:44

I have come to the conclusion that it’s best to avoid ANY company that Woodford was a major investor in (or Invesco under his stewardship). To be honest there weren’t many anyway that I held or were interested in. They all seem to share racy get rich quick schemes. I was looking at the Crystal Amber Fund today, but have given up after seeing who owns the shares.

Burford is a great example of another Woodford company now exposed for issues. I cannot honestly name one hard working professionally run company that Woodford has invested in. They are all slightly edgy / dodgy companies who talk a good game, but have a slight shortcoming in respect of their ethics and behaviour. Even the profitable businesses employ far too much leverage. It’s incredible really.

[spectoacc] 17/8/2019 11:29

Interesting, thanks @daffy. I've said many times that HONY is a major problem for Woody. It trades at a premium, ffs, when most of the rest of them are at massive discounts. It's lucky to see 1,000 trades go through in a day (200 shares on Weds, 69 on Tue, zero Thurs or Fri), and Woody has 8,6100,000 to sell. Invesco hold another 14.2m.

HL tell me HONY is on a 9% premium. P2P a c.12% discount and been considerably bigger. Anything similar is on 10-25% discount, not premium.

Don't see how Woody can offload these - perhaps 40% below current s/p? HONY's not a bad co, it's done everything it set out to do, it just should be on a large discount. I'd buy any of VSL, SQN, SSIF ahead of HONY, all at fat yields and large discounts.

[daffyjones] 16/8/2019 20:58

The crisis surrounding Neil Woodford has put paid to a merger between two London-listed finance companies.

Sky News has learnt that Honeycomb Investment Trust and P2P Global Investments have abandoned talks about a‎ £1bn tie-up in recent weeks because of institutions' concerns about the combined company's exposure to Mr Woodford.

Woodford Investment Management (WIM) owns about 22% of Honeycomb and is understood to have been keen to see the deal with P2PGI complete.

The transaction had been engineered by Pollen Street Capital, the manager of both investment trusts. It was to have been structured as a takeover of Honeycomb by P2PGI.

Several of P2PGI's shareholders understood to have believed they were being asked to overpay for Honeycomb given the so-called Woodford 'overhang'.

One fund management source said that Aberdeen Standard Investments and Premier Asset Management had objected to the deal, forcing it to be aborted.

[tim 3] 16/8/2019 13:49

If Woodford had started a hedge fund and shorted all his shares rather than buying them he would have made an absolute fortune!!!

[daffyjones] 16/8/2019 13:42

RC Brown among consortium that tapped Woodford for bargains

RC Brown Investment Management has been part of a consortium of institutional investors that has approached Woodford on two holdings in the past two months, as the beleaguered fund manager sells down positions.

Manager Oliver Brown said: “The market knows that Woodford has some big holdings in some small and mid caps and we know he’s going to have to look to raise money due to his fund being suspended. Brokers, certainly the week after the fund was suspended, were running around like headless chickens really trying to bid Woodford for stock.”

He noted the potential for a “double discount” on certain stocks because the “Woodford overhang” has already depressed share prices and there is the potential for them to be bought cheaper than their current trading value given Woodford is a forced seller.

As a result the fund has increased its position in tenpin bowling operator Ten Entertainment and doorstep lender Morses Club – two stocks taken directly from Woodford since the fund was frozen.

The fund bought Ten Entertainment last month at 212p at a time when they had been trading around 225p. They are currently trading at 240p.

In July Morses Club was trading at around 150p and Brown was able to purchase shares at 130p. They currently trade at 129p.

Other stocks in Woodford’s portfolio that look attractive to Brown include Eddie Stobart, which Woodford Investment Management owns 22.8% of. Another is Card Factory.

Elsewhere, Brown said Countryside Properties could be attractive as long as RC Brown and other investors could take Woodford out of the position entirely. Loans lender Amigo Holdings is a “volatile company” but could be attractive at the right price, he added.

He added: “We’re buying companies that we actually think are the perfectly good companies but the primary opportunity in this case is what we call a forced seller and we put Woodford in this camp.”

[ltcm1] 16/8/2019 13:20

Could be PURP or PFG or AUTL, PRTA, TBPH.

Or Proton.

I wouldn't rule anything out!

[buywell3] 16/8/2019 13:17

If you are sailing
If you are sailing
far away across the sea
if you are sailing
if you are sailing
in investment vessel WPCT

If you are sailing
If you are sailing
stormy waters ahead I see
if you are sailing
if you are sailing
rocks a'starboard at 40P

[ltcm1] 16/8/2019 11:46

LOL 'dog of the day' - I like that!

It's only 11.46 Dr!

[ltcm1] 16/8/2019 11:45

I get the feeling Woodford's got a few more scandals to come out yet. Maybe one of the ex staff will spill the beans.

Has Woody got a private jet??? Reckon he might be needing it by lat autumn!

[dr biotech] 16/8/2019 11:41

4d pharma down 12% - Woodfords dog of the day

[porsche1945] 16/8/2019 10:42

Looks like normal service has resumed, .28 is where I see these ending up. Feeling generous. Marshall Wace increasing short bets against HL, obvi expecting some slapping from authorities over scandalous keeping of a shixe fund like weif on a buy list for two years in their rather than their investors interest.

[spectoacc] 16/8/2019 07:57

If you're talking WPCT @RCT2, it's all in posts above (I'm talking WEIF). Nobody but Link believes the NAV IMO.

Don't forget the OD too, due for renewal in Jan.

Looking forward to hearing what Woodford's WPCT Board do next - and the potential kitchen-sinking. Maybe they should appoint Barnett? ;)

[rcturner2] 16/8/2019 07:40

What would be very interesting to know is how the NAV breaks down between listed and unlisted investments and how much capital is committed to future fundraising rounds for the unlisted shares.

I can see a situation where the NAV is massively overstated here, once the true state of the assets is known.

[spectoacc] 16/8/2019 06:35

Not the best market to try to flog large amounts of Benevolent AI, Industrial Heat, Oxford Nano etc. They all have to go. Did anyone believe "ungating in December"?