Woodford Patient Capital Share Discussion Threads

[jonwig] 14/8/2019 15:12

LOL - but more so.

Woe, Woe, ...

[spectoacc] 14/8/2019 15:03

"..His "good" stocks will go down and his bad stocks won't be able to raise money to stay afloat....Daily value of their holdings being crushed, and nothing they can do about it."

The last 3 months!

[jonwig] 14/8/2019 14:56

EJ - for me, yes, it's confirmation of what I've been expecting for too long!

Markets will be awful, but at least Trump might give up his war against China for a while.

As for Woody, his "good" stocks will go down and his bad stocks won't be able to raise money to stay afloat. His WEIF investors will see the daily value of their holdings being crushed, and nothing they can do about it. (The natural reaction would be to sell.)

[1oughton] 14/8/2019 14:21

He's a shyster. That's hardly libel

[spectoacc] 14/8/2019 14:09

One plus of the Woodford debacle is it'll hopefully shine a light on the ridiculous margins of HL & SJP. The Sunday Times in particularly is going after them both, pointing out where the hidden charges are and reporting various complaints.

Woody struck me as a man given far, far too much money to throw around. But agree @ltcm1, has proven far worse than that. I still wonder if he's delusional, or crooked, or simply has no choice but to pretend the show can carry on & will all come good if you just "give him more time".

Northwest Bio one of my favourites, but the list does go on & on.

[tim 3] 14/8/2019 13:55

As a family we held the fund he managed through SJP so have lost a fair amount.I would never use SJP myself due to their outrageous charges but was not my decision.

[buywell3] 14/8/2019 13:48

Still 45p though

Life in this dog yet IMO

[ltcm1] 14/8/2019 13:45

I know exactly what you mean CC2014. It's basically why I hang round here, it does seem an incredible story.

If you look at the charge sheet in the round it goes beyond unlucky, through incompetence and ends at something darker and troubling. This is how I feel at least.

Northwest Biotheraputics, that was some kind of scam wasn't it? Woodford ended up hiring an ex FBI Agent on that one.

Then there was the strange case of the Purplebricks founders making an enormous amount of money, yet the thing never even broke even, with many believing the idea was a smoke and mirrors ruse that didn't stand up to financial analysis.

It seems there are always things that can be explained away. But when you have dozens of these type of events it begins to look like a pattern.

[cc2014] 14/8/2019 13:24

#9738

I think what I'm trying to say is that I used to think he was just a stock picker but now I'm beginning to wonder if there is something else going because his decisions seem less and less rationale to me. I begin to wonder if he does understand how bad his stock picks are but has other motivations for them.

If we have an investment manager who doesn't see fit to disclose his holding in WPCT, or the sale of it in a timely manner (would he have done so at all given the Board did so), then where does his moral compass lie?

[topvest] 14/8/2019 12:26

Its happened then

10 yr and 2yr bonds in the UK and US have both inverted today.
Recession highly likely in 2020.

[spectoacc] 14/8/2019 12:16

@CC2014 - and the RAV connection to the Guernsey listings. All Fat Bloke Finance! ie Woody invests in his mates, and has turned out to be a very bad judge of character.

WPCT Board stuffed with execs from co's WEIF is invested in is another example.

[cc2014] 14/8/2019 11:53

I have been wondering this for a couple of months now but only now do I feel comfortable writing this.

I have previously expressed views that Woodford and his team can't read a balance sheet. Also I've talked about his investing psychology being more like an inexperienced PI than a fund manager.

But now I'm beginning to think there's something deeper.

Take BUR. Post 9716 pushes the boundaries and asks for a leap of faith to believe it but if you stick to the facts this is what we get:
1. 4 accountants in 4 years
2. no no-exec directors
3. wife of CEO is FD
4. FD is not a qualified accountant (as she doesn't put her qualification initials in any RNS). She is however an FCA. To a casual observer maybe this looks like Fellow of Chartered Accoutants or something but no. CFA is a "Chartered Financial Analsyst".



It's not an accounting qualification at all.
5. The company refuses to move to the main market
6. The company remains comfortable without a qualified accountant at the helm.

All the above makes this univestable for me. Too many red flags.

Now you're a fund manager and not only do you know all this, you get to meet the people too on a fairly regular basis for updates. And yet you still have 7% of your portfolio invested in this asset, even when it's outside of your new investment remit of FTSE100 and a small bit of FTSE250. He fully knows all these facts and yet he likes it as an investment (and likes it alot as he's selling all sorts of stuff but clearly he's emotionally attached to this more than all the other stuff).

Like so many other of his investments it's not straightforward. He seems to be attracted to this kind of mess. Or maybe to get to the point he's far more involved than it appears and it's something he would rather not discuss.


Other things that worry me are he attempted influence on NSF/PCF and the Stobart Board thing, the compostion of the non-execs on his Boards and his relationship with the directors of RAV. It just doesn't feel right.

[buywell3] 14/8/2019 11:52

Caveat

Unless one holds circa 30%

[buywell3] 14/8/2019 11:50

You might want to edit that one

Clearly the knives are out

And I have just been reading Conn Iggulden Emperor series which I can wholeheartedly recommend , you will see the reference if you read them … must be done in order


45p though re the NAV is the issue for now



The BOD being woody's pick are not likely to give him marching orders are they


Shareholders in this one IMO are powerless

[ltcm1] 14/8/2019 11:31

I think they recently renamed Xeros IIRC, new name is Zeros I believe :).

[porsche1945] 14/8/2019 11:01

Billionaires Pocket $100 Million Dividend As Ordinary Investors Remain Locked In U.K.’s Worst ‘Dog Fund’

HL total scumbags.

[ak47high] 14/8/2019 10:32

hxxps://news.sky.com/story/amp/woodford-to-offload-stake-in-push-doctor-backer-adv-to-l-g-11784842

[spectoacc] 14/8/2019 10:11

It's the ongoing earnest videos that get me - "This is what I think, this is what we're doing". In IFF, maybe. In WEIF - not since around 2016.

Feels like everyone involved is culpable - HL, Woody, WIM, FCA, Link - but no one is criminal or (as BUR would say) actionable.

[tim 3] 14/8/2019 10:07

Obviously underperformance alone is not a case for litigation but you do wonder if there is case to answer that he misled investors by investing in shares that are highly speculative in a fund that was marketed as cautious.

[tim 3] 14/8/2019 09:24

And to think he told us preservation of capital was his number one priority with that lot!

[jonwig] 14/8/2019 09:17

A minor event, but Xeros (XSG) wants to raise £5m - £10m. (10 would get them to breakeven.) WIM owns 33% (down from 40% in June) so could be in hock to maybe £3m. It's probably that or bust.

It's a question for his famed moral compass to answer, but WIM might be the only offeror, so is it £10m down the drain or £20m down the drain, being the current MCap.

I'm glad I don't have to work it out for him.

[spectoacc] 14/8/2019 08:54

Wonder how much more WEIF holders would have recovered had the sensible thing been done at gating - ie winding-up by another manager. 5%? 10%?

Instead, Woody is being allowed to buy into FTSE100's (we still don't know which), run his "surely they'll come good eventually" portfolio with BUR as (before the halving) 2nd largest holding, charge his fees, and watch the 9% shareholding in WPCT dribble down the toilet. Oh and - allegedly - not take c.$15/share for his Autolus holding a few weeks ago (now $10).

A reminder of that WEIF Top 10 from 30th June:
BDEV, BUR, TW, Benevolent No Money, PFG, Theravance, CSP, Oxford Nano, IP Group, RAVC (already sold, at 20p under the mid price).

We have the unicorns to look forward to, but I wonder if something bad could possibly happen to the housebuilders first?