Tp Icap Share Discussion Threads

[creditcrunchies] 17/3/2022 08:49

Dividend cover is based on reported earnings not adjusted earnings, so the dividend cover is actually 0.069 when you need 2.0 really to invest for dividends. They'd have been better off biting the bullet to bring back dividends when their earnings had turned around

[dhoult12] 17/3/2022 08:16

And yes aware Phizzy Rascal left the buisness after that disaster but he was just replaced with someone equally guilty for it, who had been there all the time. The FD has been there signing it all off throughout in his previous role as head of finance or whatever.

Needs a clear out and board replaced with those with some technology experience to make it work. IMHO you would get more buy in from the market that the move to electronic will actually happen... If run by people who actually knew what they were doing in that space.

[dhoult12] 17/3/2022 08:09

For sure that's your bet that the rot stops and margin ticks up through move from voice to electronic.
Would be more interested in taking that bet if under different management. I.e. not the same people that totally mucked up the ICAP integration and have destroyed 70% of shareholder wealth over 5 years...

[creditcrunchies] 17/3/2022 07:54

The earnings were bad they fudged it but on the other hand peeps buy on the speculation it can be turned around. What you always notice on BBs though is you get so many people saying you should sell, this business isn't viable when it's already collapsed -80%.

[dhoult12] 16/3/2022 15:57

Wouldn't use adjusted. It's just whatever the FD has decided to exclude this year.... And low behold same adjustment every year, almost like every year there's 'significant or unexpected' costs

[coxsmn] 16/3/2022 13:21

No.Adjusted eps 19.5pP/e=5.8

[j777j] 16/3/2022 11:32

Currently trades on a p/e close to 40 !!!!!!!!

massive downside potential

[swinsco] 16/3/2022 08:28

Nicely in profit. Better than 0, currently.

[j777j] 16/3/2022 08:17

The times

Little appetite for more of the same at TP Icap
Emma Powell
Wednesday March 16 2022, 12.01am GMT, The Times



TP Icap is stuck on repeat and investors are getting bored. Shares in the interdealer broker formed by the merger of Tullett Prebon and Icap have fallen by more than two thirds since the rivals’ deal was completed in 2016...

The FTSE 250 constituent has been struggling to generate sustainable earnings under pressure from Brexit disruption, currency fluctuations and weak trading in the fixed-income and swaps markets. Costs incurred in efforts to diversify its client base and shift towards electronic trading have further hampered profitability.







nb Hard to see how this is worth more than 30p on £24 million profits and thats before any potential liabilities from lawsuites etc

[coxsmn] 15/3/2022 19:12

I am trying to understand what environment is good for the business, they say volatility is generally beneficial but not too much volatility. Inflation is good for the business and that's what we've got. There seems to be a lot of moving parts and i find it hard to figure out.

[elsa7878] 15/3/2022 19:05

Amazed revenues are only up 4% in the first quarter. Thought it would be more like 10%. Death by a thousand cuts. Dividend unnecessarily large and should be cut to fund investment, legal fees and ultimately cut debt.

[coxsmn] 15/3/2022 19:01

Results are pretty much in-line with what i expected. They seem to be doing the right things but I expect it will take a while before things bear fruit. I'm of the opinion they over paid for Liquidnet and it has overly diluted earnings. On the positive side it will be key to driving business growth in the future. Some short to medium term pain for longer term gain i would say.

[coxsmn] 15/3/2022 18:41

Bit of an over reaction today.Sp will recover and in the meantime i'll collect the dividend.

[jezza123] 15/3/2022 17:09

Right so u can see the future then can u J777? - if that were true u would be living on your own private island rather than writing on here mate - did you seek medical help as I suggested?

[dhoult12] 15/3/2022 16:47

Not into the 0p target price but he's right in the reading of that note.
They have spent £5m on legal fees defending it in the period. Doesn't provide any indication of quantum of what final settlement might be if found guilty.

[j777j] 15/3/2022 16:14

target price 0p


Remember part of this co actually came from the British and commonwealth debacle,namely Exco.




Your read on the lawsuits is faulty as it only addresses current position not all future liabilities

I suggest you reread that section very carefully.

[creditcrunchies] 15/3/2022 16:10

I put a silly limit order in let's see how desperate that seller is

[jezza123] 15/3/2022 16:04

looks like.... the legal stuff that ranty bloke (J777) is on about is really small beer (see below) - be interesting if the ranty fella showed up at the Q&A later this week, I haven't had a chance to listen.

Legal and regulatory matters (GBP15m cost in 2021; nil in 2020):

Costs, and recoveries, related to certain legal and regulatory cases are treated as significant items due to their size and nature. Management considers these cases separately due to the judgements and estimation involved, the costs and recoveries of which could vary significantly year-on-year.

Total expense of GBP15m in 2021 included the following cases:

-- GBP4m costs relating to the fine from the AMF following its investigation. The Group filed an appeal against the ruling in October 2021.

-- GBP5m costs regarding the cum-ex investigation by the Frankfurt and Cologne Public Prosecutors in Germany.

-- GBP2m in legal costs relating to the court cases in Australia. In the fourth quarter of 2021 the Group agreed to an additional GBP2m settlement.

-- GBP2m in legal fees in the pursuit of claims for costs relating to the Group Income Protection liabilities as a result of which the Group received a settlement from NEX Group Limited.

[creditcrunchies] 15/3/2022 16:01

probably a large order getting worked through the MMs forcing the bid down to fill it

[j777j] 15/3/2022 15:59

In case you missed it


TP ICAP, the world's biggest inter-deal broker, published its annual financials for 2021, reporting a more than 81 percent drop in its profits.

[jezza123] 15/3/2022 15:50

it's weird because there is current zero short interest in ICAP



so it must be more likely a large holder acting as overhang here - even the volumes really are tiny for a move this big....

all very strange.

[swinsco] 15/3/2022 15:27

It's really bad isn't it? Stay short. Or a mix of long and short.

[j777j] 15/3/2022 15:23

£24 million profits with £889 million market cap

On a p/e of 10 that is a share price of 30p


That is before considering all the potential legal liabilities.

[creditcrunchies] 15/3/2022 14:11

8.4% yield now on the dividend