Tp Icap Share Discussion Threads

[j777j] 15/3/2022 11:35

It's been called the robbery of the century

For those unfamiliar with the cum-ex scandal

[swinsco] 15/3/2022 11:33

Hahahaha. You do try hard.. who ever you work for ask for a pay rise - you deserve it.

[j777j] 15/3/2022 11:31

German prosecutors earlier accused a TP ICAP unit of being "a spider in the web" of Europe's cum-ex tax fraud scandal, Bloomberg reported separately.


Does anyone know the ultimate liabilities the co could face?

[farrugia] 15/3/2022 10:49

i got out of this this morning - exited at 123 and thought i had blundered when i saw the stock price recovering.

[topvest] 15/3/2022 10:42

Well TP ICAP is an interesting one. No doubt, the legacy business is in long-term decline and that is definitely in the price. The key price mover going forwards is whether they can successfully transition to a "data and analytics" provider. If, over time, they convert to an electronic market infrastructure then the valuation would probably go from a P/E of 5 to over 20. This will likely take 5 years+ though. I am still a small holder, but will only add more if there is some evidence of turning the corner. It doesn't look like the market is yet convinced.

[swinsco] 15/3/2022 10:30

Time to buy again. Looks over done.

[creditcrunchies] 15/3/2022 08:42

They can only cover the dividend by 2 with adjusted EPS, if you look at actual EPS for the year they cannot cover it. They must be confident about something to take that risk

[creditcrunchies] 15/3/2022 08:37

Good to see the decent dividends are back it's a decent entry point for a yield of around 7% overall for the year.

[dhoult12] 15/3/2022 08:33

Pretty meh about thoaw results no sign of margin improving with liquidnet etc infact it looks worse (somehow?).
As for synergies I remember the 'synergies' post TP purchase of ICAP voice brokers.. they are???! Cough!

Can see this between £1.10 and £1.50 until the actually show some of these cost savings into distributable profits. never happened with the voice broker deal.

[j777j] 15/3/2022 08:31

This just the most recent batch....




Legal and regulatory matters (GBP15m cost in 2021; nil in 2020):

Costs, and recoveries, related to certain legal and regulatory cases are treated as significant items due to their size and nature. Management considers these cases separately due to the judgements and estimation involved, the costs and recoveries of which could vary significantly year-on-year.

Total expense of GBP15m in 2021 included the following cases:

-- GBP4m costs relating to the fine from the AMF following its investigation. The Group filed an appeal against the ruling in October 2021.

-- GBP5m costs regarding the cum-ex investigation by the Frankfurt and Cologne Public Prosecutors in Germany.

-- GBP2m in legal costs relating to the court cases in Australia. In the fourth quarter of 2021 the Group agreed to an additional GBP2m settlement.

-- GBP2m in legal fees in the pursuit of claims for costs relating to the Group Income Protection liabilities as a result of which the Group received a settlement from NEX Group Limited.





Looks like the Cum-Ex scandal is still hanging over their heads

[bluemango] 15/3/2022 08:01

More than doubled their LiquidNet annual cost synergies and increased their target total cost synergies from 20m to 25m. Plenty of promising signs of recovery and diversification.

The obsessive, disgruntled ex-employee above will always find things to complain about, but hopefully the market will take a more objective view of these results.

Edit: looks like another day of general market weakness with Ukraine-related jitters, so the key metric will be the relative performance by the close.

[bluemango] 15/3/2022 07:51

Better than expected, and a higher dividend than I had pencilled in.

[coxsmn] 15/3/2022 07:07

Final dividend 5.5p (9.5p total for year)
Adjusted EPS 19.5p

[jezza123] 11/3/2022 22:31

Yep tuesday is the big day - good luck all!

[bluemango] 11/3/2022 08:28

Despite the doom-mongers' best efforts, some signs of recovery here recently.

Annual results on Tuesday.

[jezza123] 09/3/2022 09:50

J777J - have you considered getting some kind of therapy?

I am sensing a lot of anger here, and this behaviour isn't helping you.

[creditcrunchies] 09/3/2022 08:02

probably got an axe to grind by the sounds of it

[j777j] 09/3/2022 07:43

JP Morgan CFO Sees Q1 Markets Revenue Down About 10% From Year Earlier




Doesnt bode well

[rcturner2] 08/3/2022 16:49

I must admit when I sold out of TCAP, the amount of litigation they are involved in was a factor in that decision.

[j777j] 08/3/2022 16:16

By Karin Matussek

February 24, 2022, 10:49 AM GMTUpdated onFebruary 24, 2022, 11:53 AM GMT


Tax Fraud Architect Extradited to Germany to Face Criminal Charges
Switzerland handed Hanno Berger over to Frankfurt prosecutors
Berger was indicted in two German courts over Cum-Ex deals









The CumEx-Files is an investigation by a number of European news media outlets into a tax fraud scheme discovered by them in 2017.[1] A network of banks, stock traders, and lawyers had obtained billions from European treasuries through suspected fraud and speculation involving dividend taxes. The five hardest hit countries may have lost at least $62.9 billion.[2] Germany is the hardest hit country, with around $36.2 billion withdrawn from the German treasury.[3] Estimated losses for other countries include at least €17 billion for France, €4.5 billion in Italy, €1.7 billion in Denmark and €201 million for Belgium.[4]

The name "cum-ex" is derived from Latin, meaning "with without", and refers to the disappearing nature of the fraudulent dividend payments.[5][6]

[j777j] 08/3/2022 15:48

Can anyone put a number on the potential exposure to the whole cum-ex scandal?