Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[evergreen8] 10/11/2018 12:39

I see that I, like many other, LTHs cannot reconcile the direction of travel of the share price with the incredible recent news. This has led me to ponder on the processes that influence share price and would welcome comment from the better informed if the following could possibly be the case.
The presumption is that virtually everyone sees the incredible potential of VRS and are resolutely holding so the volume of trading within this group would be very low.
Against this background if a small team funded by an unknown party were to sell the same shares in a circle round and round at incrementally lower value in a constant downward spiral then these sales would represent the vast majority of the transaction in play without any requirement to hold a large stock that would rapidly become depleted or the need to incur significant financial loss.
The question would then be to ask who could have a motive that would justify the cost?

[charo] 10/11/2018 12:31

Haydale forerunner of what to come as former graphene wonder stock blows up.

[tim3416] 10/11/2018 12:29

It's just a personal vendetta now for most of these "shorters" lucky. They have been well had over by Neill and VRS and they don't like it. They are laughable really as they like to say about others lol

[owenga] 10/11/2018 12:24

Found some more financial data on XG sciences for Sept 2018 YTD.Revenues only 2.8m, 1.1m in last quarter, so unlikely to even make 5m revenues for full year 2018.. again cost of sales is well ahead of revenues at 5.3m, so gross loss of 2.5m. To be fair last quarter cost of sales had dropped to 1.25m, so only a small gross loss for quarter.However quarterly admin expenses and research approx 1.5m per quarter. Pre tax loss for 9months is about 5.3m.Cash flow burn of about 7.5m for 9 months. Looks like it has raised another 7m cash from issuing more shares. So at end of September it still has about 3.2m cask left at 30 sept 18..Makes you wonder if the company can keep going on burning so much cash. Will it be able to keep doing more find raises? Can it get to a gross profit...

[luckyorange] 10/11/2018 12:23

What I also don't get about the shorting brigade is that there can be no chartists amongst them at all.

Their (ahem) 60p is based on the completion of a chart pattern but they haven't taken into account the recent fundraise , which in spite of everything , was a real positive at 1.45 and created minimum dilution compared to other options.

Also no recognition of a lot of the recently potentially huge RNS's when they come to fruition and once it breaks back through the 50 day again and then the trendline that bootie produced a while back is back in play.



What I am not getting at the moment is that the break below the trend has an equal and opposite break through the trend to the upside, this will occur when something game changing happens over and above what has already happened.

Currently the 19th November is the projected point at which the current downtrend ends, don't know why, just go with it and that is when everything begins to change for good.

All beyond me why they keep focussing on a 'false' target, it tried but not happening and isn't going to happen!

As confident now as I was at the start of the correction, but really keen to know why the chart is pointing that way? Time will tell

[pcjoe] 10/11/2018 12:15

VRS installation of new 3T machine is a very big moment for the Co. IMHO - All very well claiming to have cracked the mass production issue, by producing quality GNPs on the back of small laboratory scale production accessible by only 4 or 5 vetted & NDA`d individuals - But nothing like being able to physically demonstrate concrete evidence that Tonnes of production are possible via a reliable white coat supervised/blue collar operated machine

Once that machine is up & going & publicly proven to potential customers and shareholders, then VRS will be well on its way to being a fully de-risked proposition

I think Neil & Co are playing a great game game, but timing is all - The recent Collaboration/SP push has to be balanced by proven progress on the ground - The new machine & hopefully transparent proof of its success will help hugely with that

[ellissj] 10/11/2018 12:01

Indeed, pain staking and astute positioning from neill and co to build credibilty into the company has been key here. Giving confidence in a wild west market place. (Per poddy, Neill floated idea of dit help during PM's china trade trip) Turning point for the share price of many firms has been since the publication of the proposed iso graphene standards. Vrs sitting pretty in this regard. Aimo. Dyor. Best ellis.

[luckyorange] 10/11/2018 11:56

Why would the shorters keep baiting him, all that will tend to do is focus the mind, not a situation that I would join against the man with all of the knowledge, not only will he kick them in the nuts he will take their legs from under them 🌞

[owenga] 10/11/2018 11:54

XG Sciences. Just looked at their last 10k filed for the year end 31/12/2017.Backs up what SuperG is saying. 1.8m revenues but cost of sales is 2.6m, so making a gross loss of 800k. Basket case! On top of that admin and research costs of 5m. Burnt 6m cashflow in 2017. It raised 6m in 2017 and 4m in 2016. As at end of March 2018 it only had 2.3m cash left. I'm surprised they haven't already run out of cash. Have they had another cash raise during 2018 does anyone know?

[luckyorange] 10/11/2018 11:52

Neill Ricketts
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@neillricketts
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Graphene oxide has now reached the pinnacle of any material’s evolution, successfully proving itself in the lab against six kinds of cancer cells. Researchers from the University of Manchester have found that flaked graphene oxide preferentially hits these cancers where it hurts

Shilpan (Sam)Patel
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@sampate86231930
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More Shilpan (Sam)Patel Retweeted Neill Ricketts
This can be a game changer. A real service to Humanity. We should be ready to invest to do clinical trials. Arrow’s 100% owned subsidiary “Avery Pharmaceuticals Pvt. Ltd.,Ahmedabad,India” sits in midst of Pharma hub. Avery is into NDDS via edible film-Patented Tech by Arrow.

[runthejoules] 10/11/2018 11:41

pearoast soz

[festario] 10/11/2018 11:40

Thanks SupeG, I like honey, it could go well with bananas!

[runthejoules] 10/11/2018 11:40

Diversification, if we can combine First mover advantage on high-quality nanene with Last Man Standing advantage on the lower quality by-product I'd say that's a sweet spot.

I just hope we can also move up the chain with aac cyroma as intended. Start bringing out the lighter, stronger versions of Pre-existing Tesco crates, non-critical Range Rover components etc en masse to show what nanene can do for lightweighting existing designs. I hope in all the exotic faraway LoIs and MoUs we're not losing sight of easy practical wins.

Still holding 95k & looking to make it to 100k at these levels if a few other stocks spike. Glalth.

[diversification] 10/11/2018 11:20

I think this is the problem with the sector right now. Most if not all graphene companies are running with an operational loss. Trying to penetrate the market with cheap graphene/graphite.

These enduring relationships with the most recently announced Chinese MOU would allow VRS to dictate a sustainable market price whilst ensuring quality and this is the only way I can see Graphene penetrating mainstream commercial applications. Running a business of my own, it’s not just about my suppliers pricing point.

What is the use if your graphene supplier is not around in a few years as they have gone bust. Building enduring relationships can lead to new opportunities for both parties. (Scratch each others back).

Many markets have identified significant improvements in product to encourage adoption but as per Tesla, they need large scale sustainability on the supply side.

VRS’s business model will prove successful over time, with initial signs that Nanene adoption is set to snowball over the coming months. Providing large scale product collaborations with proof that the supply is available and sustainable.

Yes we will have competition but the competition doesn’t have the business model/contacts/foot in the door to compete at this stage.

All about first mover advantage at this stage. IMO.

[lovat scout] 10/11/2018 11:18

Yet some people still wonder why companies with stronger balance sheets trade at multiples of those in need of cash.....

[magic beans] 10/11/2018 10:42

XG have also revised their FY revenue projections down again (as I predicted to a certain detractor). Original revenue projections for 2018 = $20 to $30 million. Revised down to $8 to $15 million earlier this year. Now revised down again to $5 to $7 million (which they won't hit either).
Burn rate still $2 million per quarter.

[chumbo1] 10/11/2018 10:34

From SP's Twitter feed:Hon PM Mr. Modiji, when he was in Tesla. Our very own Mehta Jr. Is besides Elon Musk. Awaiting Tesla to Make In India. Arrow will be happy to partner ans energise the dream car!!

[luckyorange] 10/11/2018 10:05

Are you sure superg? There are some that think XG is wonderful and they just got some more funding.

You did point it out a couple of years ago which I appreciated and I suppose your posts are just for the new investors , that said I think it will encourage others to come along and debunk what you have just said .

On those salaries they have had a good living and a reasonably long run but it does make you wonder (akin to Barder) what they hell they find to do all day other than spend other peoples money?

[superg1] 10/11/2018 09:55

So on the XG international sales point.

In 2017 up to the end of September South Korea and China bought $233k worth of XG product.

This year the entire rest to the world revenue so far has been $143k. Last year to this point it was 46% of sales ($397k).

So that tells us 54% of sales were to US companies, I'll check later when Callaway kicked in

So sales to other companies around the world have dropped by 64%

So the break down is 87% Callaway, 5% rest of the world, 8% other US companies.

8% for the other US companies is $229k.

So facts start to reveal the BS baffles brains game they play.

EG

As can be seen in the chart below, our quarterly average order size was relatively modest until the second half of 2017, when a number of customers reached commercial status with different product applications.

"Then During the nine months ended September 30, 2018, we shipped materials to customers in 23 different countries"

That would make 22 of them international down from 27 in 2017.

22 countries for $143k comes out at an average of $6.5k per COUNTRY, there were 26 orders in total a drop from 37 the year before.

As I said before and will say again, thank Fk Callaway turned up. Callaway were in the market looking to get some cheap graphene, XG obliged as sales were falling and they needed to keep the lights on. However it appears to be loss making for them.

As always facts start get in the way of a good story or in this case BS.

[club sandwich] 10/11/2018 09:40

Cotswold - The Big Short is a brilliant film (and a better book). Margot Robbie in a bubble bath explaining CDOs is genius...

[shavian] 10/11/2018 09:37

ArrowGreen’s share price has dropped from Rps500 to 100 since January. Cause for concern - or bargain of the year?

[clint fleecewood] 10/11/2018 09:28

LO - I'm hoping it will be battery tech.

[luckyorange] 10/11/2018 09:00

Not quite getting what Arrow can supply Tesla with other than tyres at the moment so not getting the excitement from that end, but they know and I don't.... simples.