Iofina Share Discussion Threads

[engelo] 18/2/2015 01:17

Think I've read on the thread earlier (a) that Carlisle is not going to be legally represented and (b) may not attend. Could anyone confirm this and if so where does this leave us? Very well placed for a speedy decision imo :-)

[bobbyshilling] 17/2/2015 22:43

Monty P,

In the application status, it can be seen that a hearing is scheduled for 19th Feb. Not everyone is aware that the examiner has extra time after this date to consider, and make a decision; mainly perhaps only the people that read this thread are aware. That is why I am expecting an rns to update the market as to what happened at the hearing, and when they expect to have a decision - we may even get the scenario that Ranger1955 posted above.

[ranger1955] 17/2/2015 22:15

cyberbub 17 Feb'15 - 20:37 - 29880 of 29885 0 0

[superg1] 17/2/2015 21:47

B
'Atlantis Water Solutions permit be denied for either misrepresenting facts or purely speculating to meet their burden of proof for a beneficial use of water'

"Shall we break for coffee and discuss this further Mr Carlisle, you look unwell".

After the break we can discuss, reworking wells, maintenance water, slick water, and water flooding. Yes water flooding Mr Carlisle, Denbury onshore plan to do that in Eastern Montana, they applied for a permit you know.

Lots of lovely things to discuss called FACTS. most supplied from an 1100 Bakken well survey and the main operators in the area.

Then you can tell us how much water Halliburton and Baker Hughes actually need in the coming years can't you.

[superg1] 17/2/2015 21:35

So those 4 permits Mr Carlisle.

As in Montana rules, letters of intent must be converted into contracts to sell to the customer, I mean if they weren't converted then surely they were speculation.

That's a point you raise isn't it Mr Carlisle, those pesky non locals speculating and lying about demand.

In fact you allege to some extent that the application by AWS is fraudulent. You say they are 'speculating', 'misrepresenting facts', 'exaggerating', yet you point out 21 permits where water can be obtained.

'Generally it takes 40,000 barrels to frack a well once',

Your words in your objection. So when you applied for your own permit, why did you record an average of 65,000 barrels per well. In fact you give a range of up to 95,000 barrels per well.

Again your words Mr Carlisle.

'The Atlantis Water Solutions service area is exaggerated.'

In your own application you list all the AWS counties (5) plus 3 more. So your permit covers 8 counties and a larger area than applied for by AWS. SO AWS are exaggerating are they.

Are the bureau exaggerating too, as they have listed 12 counties and a 100 mile radius as viable and acceptable. AWS have listed 5 of them and a 50 mile radius, they can add the other 7 if they wish, it's all been ratified by the bureau.

Your words again Mr Carlisle.

'Clearly there are many facts about this application that are questionable or misrepresented.'

Tell me are you talking about the content of your objection or your own application, as they contradict each other depending on your personal needs.

4 permits viable, not 21. You have the 2nd largest service area listed of all the permits and the largest relevant permit (1843 acre feet). Yet you have, or SHOULD HAVE, contracts in place from buyers for 2286 acre feet. So your allocation is taken isn't it by contracts covering more water than you can supply.

Those other 3 depots have or SHOULD HAVE contracts in place which by their own applications show the demand for their water is higher than they can supply.

2 are them are too small anyway and I understand you have 2 pumps yourself.

You and Mr Hardy who have 1000 acre feet plus are over-subscribed by 693 acre feet in contracts.

Can you run through your 'facts' again for me and explain where our customers can get the water they want in a timely manner to meet the demands of the oil industry. We are not talking the 12 truck wildcat trucking Mr Carlisle, who coincidentally seem to need 100 plus trucks based on the letters of intent they signed.

So AWS are speculating and misrepresenting facts. Can I ask you to read out your application and the application by AWS please.

If anyone wants to read through the permits it's about 4,500 pages, have fun.

[superg1] 17/2/2015 21:07

Points A and C.

Mr Carlisle can we run through those facts.

18 permits plus and municipal you say, a total of 12000 acre feet.

Right let's go through that as you kindly listed all the permits on your objection.

18 of them including the municipal permits, easy mistake I suppose not 21 as you suggest.

Oh hold on, 1 you have listed twice. Oh and one is simply a change on an existing permit, listed twice also.

Then these 2, oh they don't have any water at all.

Then you list 3 more permits where one can do one well and the others 2 or 3 in an entire year. 1 is a trucking company for their own business.

So the actual relevant permit list is 10 not 21 as you infer, isn't it Mr Carlisle.

So let's go through those.

Oh one is closed, it never opened, one of those um Ames....., no I'll save that for another day.

1 with a gravity feed tank and no pumps about 5 trucks over a 2 hour period can be filled due to the supply rate, hmmmm not viable that one. Oh and there's another gravity feed one, not viable.

Oh that one is only open 12 hrs a day and altogether not viable.

So it's 6 not 21 isn't it Mr Carlisle. You, Mr Hardy, Mr Ames x2, Pease ranch, and 1 other.

Oh sorry forget Pease ranch, 16 contracts for 566 acre feet out of a well via those blasted gravity feed tanks. Once more not viable.

So what we have is 4 'viable' water depots/permits. Only 2 of which have the capacity that Halliburton want.

The 4 are you, David Hardy, and John Ames x 2 aren't they Mr Carlisle.

[monty panesar] 17/2/2015 21:07

Cyber,

There is a possibility but I think I read the average period for notification for a DNRC hearing is about 3 weeks after the hearing date.

The permit is one thing but the important thing is the agreement that follows a few week behind it all being well.

Monty

[spike_1] 17/2/2015 21:01

The objector would only 'fold' if there was a financial benefit in so doing - is there - I don't think so.

Best wishes - Mike

[cyberbub] 17/2/2015 20:37

Monty... the other scenario is of course that the objector folds at the hearing... entirely possible...

[monty panesar] 17/2/2015 20:28

Bobbyshilling. Why should there be an RNS on Friday or Monday? We all know the examiner has 30 days to make his decision.

Only if the hearing doesn't take place should they put out an RNS.


  17 Feb'15 - 14:29 - 29860 of 29878   2   0

I should expect an rns on Fri or Mon saying the hearing has taken place and the decision is expected within a certain timeframe, unless of course there has been a decision made there and then.

[arlington chetwynd talbot] 17/2/2015 20:00

So what's going on here Graham? Is the QFI/IOF cash just rotating? Is it a weird arbitrage? Oh dear... lol

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[arlington chetwynd talbot] 17/2/2015 19:58

Watch what happens, you are such a tease mate LOL

You about Banksy? Eh?

[superg1] 17/2/2015 19:43

In addition there are no less than 18 water marketing permits and three municipal water rights within the radius of this circle reserving in excess of 12,000 acre feet of water a year.)

On the borders of this 225 square mile area (15 X 15 miles) there are no less than five competitors holding water reservations in excess of 3000 acre feet of water competing for the oil field industrial business. Three of these water depots also offer water heating. (Culbertson Water Depot, Constance Iverson, and Ames Solutions-Bainville.) The Atlantis Water Solutions service area is exaggerated.

A fifth misrepresentation is the fact that no indication has been given for the number of well sites in the service area to be drilled.

Conclusion:
Clearly the Applicant's burden to produce the required evidence for the Beneficial Use of Water has not been met in the realm of the compatibility of the water demand vs. available water supplies. Clearly there are many facts about this application that are questionable or misrepresented.


THAT'S IT FOLKS THAT JUST ABOUT COVERS HIS ENTIRE POINT/EVIDENCE.

Watch what happens when you actually look deeply into what he says and the real FACTS. More in a moment but please digest if you can be bothered.

I imagine a few heads will nod at some or all the points.

[arlington chetwynd talbot] 17/2/2015 19:41

I'm going for more cans Graham, Mr Patel's get a good shot mate LOL

[superg1] 17/2/2015 19:36

If you are interested in the point/s Carlisle wants to rely on, this is what he actually said in the objection. I have included the points covering beneficial use as that is the only point deemed valid.

I'll add other posts too.

My standing in this matter is predicated upon being a citizen of the State of Montana for 71 years and believing that this appropriation is excessive and does not reflect my right as a citizen to protect the waters within the State from the speculation of oil companies or other groups or individuals. Adequate evidence exists to show that while this water is presently available it is not needed and is currently available yearly several times over to the oil industry from some fifteen other holders of water marketing permits.
Thirdly my standing in this matter is further predicated upon my right as a citizen to see that intention of our laws be upheld and that Atlantis Water Solutions permit be denied for either misrepresenting facts or purely speculating to meet their burden of proof for a beneficial use of water

The first area of contention is whether or not there is a need for an additional water reservation of 3,662 acre feet within an area with a fifty mile radius of Culbertson. Generally it takes 40,000 barrels to frack a well once. (The Atlantis Water Solution's provisional request for water is a sufficient quantity to frack 702 wells in a year.) The amount requested exceeds the oil industry's ability in Montana to drill oil wells.

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[neddo] 17/2/2015 17:17

just had my pancakes, unlike act who has had his chips.

[jbe81] 17/2/2015 17:13

Still expecting a good rise in the second half of the week

[cyberbub] 17/2/2015 16:07

Couple of big delayed buys gone through there just after 1pm, 100k and 75k?

[superg1] 17/2/2015 15:53

If it wasn't for auto-correct I would be. Tudor street Montana is hot at this time of year and MOI isn't Montana international airport. Doh

[joeblogg2] 17/2/2015 15:40

super. I take it you are over there in Montana?