Clean Diesel Share Discussion Threads

[spec12] 21/6/2005 17:09

Anyone out THHHHEEEERRRRRREEEEE !!!!

[spec12] 21/6/2005 10:58

Oh well, just bought 4150 @ 0.9675 to join the party. Nice 9% spread to welcome me as well.

Let's hope I'm not singing "It's my party and I'll cry if I want to" at the end of this play.

Spec

[hyper al] 20/6/2005 21:09

satan

I'm in these long.

Take a look a GOIL

[satan 666] 20/6/2005 20:28

any life or heart beat in this share?come on MM'S give us move up or down?we want to see action...drop the price i don't mind waiting to buy..please bloody move for gods sake....oops i said god.

[maestro.] 19/6/2005 22:34

'Clean diesel technology' showcased
Group urges lawmakers to back White House plan for tax credits
From Paul Courson
CNN

Thursday, April 28, 2005 Posted: 5:38 PM EDT (2138 GMT)


VIDEO
President Bush discusses his energy proposals.




WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Proponents of diesel-powered cars drove to Capitol Hill Thursday hoping to distance themselves from a questionable image that the engines and vehicles have had with consumers in the past.

During a fuel price crunch in the 1980s, Oldsmobile tried using a gasoline engine as the basis for a more thrifty diesel design. But the engine suffered a high failure rate, and consumers complained so loudly that General Motors offered a gasoline replacement engine.

Twenty years later, in the grips of another fuel price crunch, supporters of diesel technology hope consumers will consider developments in diesel engines for cars, minivans and sport utility vehicles.

"These engines are designed from the ground up" for diesel, said Allen Schaeffer, the head of the Diesel Technology Forum, noting the fuel is still the economical choice for long-haul trucks and heavy industrial equipment.

Allowing reporters to test-drive cars that ranged from a Jeep wagon to a Mercedes sedan, Schaeffer said the attraction is that "we don't see any exhaust emissions coming out the tailpipe, and we have a very quick start off the line."

None of the vehicles had the telltale dirty rear panel -- soiled with an oily, sooty film from diesel exhaust -- yet all had the characteristic rattling sound of a diesel engine.

"If you put a diesel beside a gasoline, it's really not that much difference," Schaeffer said. "The consumer is only going to notice the difference where it counts -- and that's at the pump. They're going to be spending less on fuel, about 30 percent less, with a diesel as compared to a gasoline model."

The group hopes to persuade congressional lawmakers to support White House plans for tax incentives to encourage people to buy diesel-powered vehicles.

President Bush told a business group Wednesday that anti-pollution measures for diesel "will remove more than 90 percent of the sulfur in diesel fuel by 2010."

The president called for expanding his existing tax credit proposal, which currently applies to hybrid and fuel-cell vehicles, to include those using new clean diesel technology.

"Clean diesel technology will allow consumers to travel much farther on each gallon of fuel, without the smoke and pollution of past diesel engines," he said.

While typical gasoline engines ignite fuel using spark plugs, diesel engines -- patented in 1893 by German engineer Rudolf Diesel -- do so with compression, according to the forum.

[maestro.] 19/6/2005 22:22

an interesting battle between the two technologies ..will it be EGR or Clean diesels SCR system?




Letter from Europe - by Doug Jack [More articles]



Click on these images to enlarge them

Europe divided on emissions solutions

In recent years there had been some encouraging indications that the European Union, Japan and North America were at least starting to think about harmonizing test procedures and permitted limits of emissions of nitrous oxides, carbon dioxide, hydrocarbons and particulate matter from large diesel engines. It would have made life much easier for the major international engine manufacturers supplying world markets.

That prospect appears to have been dealt a heavy blow by recent developments in the European Union. Most of our major manufacturers are vertically integrated making their own engines, and in some cases also offering them to smaller bus builders. Independent engine makers like Caterpillar and Cummins are also active but only on a relatively small scale in buses.

The next round of European emissions limits, popularly known as Euro 4, will come into force for new models first registered (put into service) on or after Oct. 1, 2005 and for existing models one year later. Euro 5 is already on the horizon, with an expected introduction date of Oct. 1, 2008 for new models and Oct. 1, 2009 for existing vehicles.

That has made engine manufacturers plan for the two stages simultaneously. In some member states of the European Union, there are also incentives, such as reductions in road tolls for vehicles capable of meeting emission limits that are stricter than those required by legislation.

All the main engine builders have declared their hands and two distinctly different technologies have emerged. One is Exhaust Gas Recirculation, EGR, and the other is Selective Catalytic Reduction, SCR.

With EGR, some of the exhaust gases are cooled from around 600 degrees C (1,112 degrees F) to 35-40 degrees C (95-104 degrees F) and then fed back into the engine, where they are mixed with fresh air. Because the exhaust gas contains water and carbon dioxide the concentration of oxygen in the intake air is reduced. Water and carbon dioxide have higher specific heat capacity than oxygen, and therefore the blend decreases the temperature as well as the speed of combustion. The formation of nitrous oxide is greater at high temperatures, and so EGR reduces NOx formation without increasing fuel consumption.

The pressure in the exhaust pipe must be higher than in the inlet manifold in order to force some of the exhaust gases into it. This can be achieved by a special turbocharger such as one with variable geometry or a turbo-compound system. The whole EGR system is mounted on the engine and emissions are tackled in the combustion chamber.

SCR involves the injection of a urea-based liquid additive into the exhaust gases to reduce emissions to the necessary level. The additive is based on ammonia and is sometimes known as carbamide or, in Europe, by proprietary names, especially AdBlue.

Urea needs to be carried in a separate tank on board the vehicle. The electronic control unit on the engine constantly monitors emissions of NOx and the temperature of the catalyst. It calculates the required amount of urea, and it is injected by an air-assisted dosing unit into the exhaust gases. The urea vaporizes and forms ammonia which reacts with NOx in the catalyzer, resulting in harmless nitrogen and water at the end of the exhaust pipe. Early catalyzers were quite bulky, but they have recently become more compact and can be shaped to fit available space in an engine compartment.

Although SCR technology is new in the automotive industry, it has been used in power stations and on ferries in the Baltic for many years.

A divided industry
Scania and MAN, two of Europe's most highly respected engine designers, have gone the EGR route, although MAN also adds a self-cleaning oxidizing particulate filter that does not need any additive. Iveco will also use EGR on its smaller diesel engines used in panel vans and small buses.

Ranged against them are some equally distinguished engine builders, including Cummins, DAF, Iveco (for larger engines), Mercedes-Benz, Renault and Volvo. They argue that SCR technology will be the only way to meet more strict emission limits at Euro 5 and beyond. Scania denies that, saying that its EGR engines will comply with Euro 5 limits.

SCR technology is unlikely to be a problem for city bus fleets or any other type of operation where vehicles return to their home depot at least once a day. A number of European chemical companies are offering to install refueling facilities. They will supply a small container with a urea tank, pump and refueling nozzle.

Although urea is not corrosive care has to be taken in handling it. Its freezing point is higher than that of diesel. Additives will be required in cold climates. It also damages concrete, which could be a problem in a number of bus depots, and like diesel it must not be allowed to enter drains.

European manufacturers claim that SCR-equipped engines will benefit from an improvement in the consumption of diesel of 4-6 percent, compared with Euro 3 engines, and that typical consumption of urea will be around 2 percent of that of diesel. The engine will work without any urea, but then emission levels will revert to those of 10-15 years ago.

SCR technology is more of a challenge to coach companies, especially those running extended tours. They need to be confident that they can fill up with urea whenever they refuel. That is a massive challenge for the chemical companies. They have only a few months to install a refueling infrastructure, not just in the European Union but wherever EU-based trucks and coaches are likely to operate.

MAN and Scania are making much of the fact that their Euro 4 vehicles will be able to fill up with diesel anywhere they need. Ultra low sulphur diesel is now widely available in many parts of Europe, but diesel with higher sulphur content is still the norm in many parts of Central and Eastern Europe, basically the old Soviet bloc.

Vehicle manufacturers will have to make space for urea tanks and catalytic converters. Space is already at a premium on low floor city buses. Logically, urea tanks should be installed near diesel tanks, so that both can be refilled at the same time.

Looking at the costs
Despite the claims and counter-claims of the proponents of EGR and SCR, there has been very little hard evidence of the real costs. The EGR technology is probably more expensive, but there is a saving in weight and packaging. Scania already has experience of EGR Euro 4 engines in trucks, and owners are finding a slight improvement in fuel consumption.

Volvo carried out an extended trial with a fleet of buses in Sweden using SCR technology. It had early versions of Euro 3 engines, but emission levels came within Euro 5 limits, and with a slight improvement in fuel consumption.

There will be more news about the two technologies and their respective merits over the coming months, leading to a major battle for orders in the autumn exhibition season. That is when bus and coach fleets will have to decide on specifications of new vehicles.

Doug Jack is with Transport Resources in the United Kingdom.

[the speculator] 19/6/2005 14:53

Fortune favours the brave maestro and good luck with you on that one.
CDT is risky enough for me.

[maestro.] 19/6/2005 11:08

spec12...yes by a long way...my next potential 10+ bagger is Brainspark[BSP]..another little dotcom jewel with a market cap of only £0.5m...they invest mainly in internet start up companies..one of the them is easyart.com..this company imho is worth 6x the market cap alone now...and have announced plans to expand into 4 more countries

[the speculator] 19/6/2005 10:52

I can see the pos vibes here as the companies products are in a market that is now receiving high profile media attention and legislation.

I'm a little concerned that the significant revenue in 2004 (predicted end 2003) never materialised or there idea of significant profit is a MILLION miles away from mine. The likelihood/hope is that they are so close to a big market that money went on the sales effort to position themselves for future growth.

Even so I can't see them every addressing fully the significant revenue predictions.

I would also be worried that a similar spike back end of 2003 also following upbeat RNS from company saw the share price rise to £2.50 and then plummet to £1.50 in a few months.

Of course we are now over 2 years on and closer to legislation etc and top the EPA charts in crucial areas.

So even though people said the same about QXL Maestro you cannot just bulldoze into any stock as the QXL's of this world are few and far between.

On balance the downside is limited due to the markets cap and the fact that they should get a slice of the market and the upside is very exciting is they dominate.

Leaning towards buying.

Spec

[spec12] 17/6/2005 12:54

well done with QXL.....was that your best punt ever ?

[maestro.] 17/6/2005 12:15

spec..yes got out along time ago..not a great lover of telematics to be honest..in fact i hope the sector fails now having thought about it

[spec12] 17/6/2005 12:05

Ooh not very friendly here r we.

Maestro were you not into Cybit for a long time ?

[maestro.] 17/6/2005 11:26

try ringing the company

[satan 666] 17/6/2005 10:48

mm's wake up whats going on?i said WAKE UP,WAKE UP don't you want to trade?give us a clue up or down...show a sign please..

[satan 666] 17/6/2005 10:48

mm's wake up whats going on?i said WAKE UP,WAKE UP don't you want to trade?give us a clue up or down...show a sign please..

[spec12] 17/6/2005 08:46

Any idea of royalties per unit ?

[tonystringy] 16/6/2005 19:13

Still watching closely. No news from the trade fair yet?

[spec12] 16/6/2005 17:56

True and an exhaust on the face of it should be a far easier decision than changing a transmission etc.

Like this one.....Hhmnn

[maestro.] 16/6/2005 16:55

yeah but these emissions have to be sorted by oct 2005

[spec12] 16/6/2005 16:52

Good post Hyper, thinking about these but only problem being that the Motor Industry takes forever to agree deals etc. I hold Torotrak and it's like waiting for the second coming.

[hyper al] 16/6/2005 15:38

If you take a look at the US Enviromental Protection Agency approved list



You will see why this one is worth investing in.

Well that's my reason for this investment!

Regards to all holders.

Hyper Al

[chippy2] 15/6/2005 20:55

satan 666 ,

What news are we expecting ?? Or are you just ramping ??

[chippy2] 15/6/2005 20:53

maestro.,

was up 13% in US ! We are ahead now !