Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[luckyorange] 25/7/2018 08:23

Because they said 10,000 tons it didn't even warrant a second look, if they had said 100 tons then it would.

[p@] 25/7/2018 08:19

Just googled this-

[superg1] 25/7/2018 08:18

here you go.

A science paper using the stuff

Commercial graphene nanoplatelets from Group NanoX-plore Inc. with an average thickness of 20 nm and average flake size of 50 µm was used for this study.

So in that ace 50um equated to 60 layers which is the point I raise. If the lateral is high so is the layer thickness.

The data sent shows a range of lateral sizes up to 1000 um.

[20pc] 25/7/2018 08:12

Lovat in the shares video. Neill says that if you double the strength you can use 50% less plastic.

[owenga] 25/7/2018 08:11

SupergWe need a quick lesson lateral sizes... we know we need less than 10 layers.. but what is ideal lateral size... and what is the difference between um and no?Cheers.

[p@] 25/7/2018 08:10

super-Rank Xerox must have many years experience with graphene,are they getting anywhere with nanene? do you know?

[superg1] 25/7/2018 08:09

The CPI tender out in specifications for graphene, they are there for a reason.

Examples from the tender

2. Lateral dimensions 500nm - 2μm
3. Thickness <3nm

Lateral dimensions 2 - 5μm
Thickness – less than 7 layers on average


Don't forget I and others have come across various data sheets with such claims but it falls apart when you look deeper or when scientists test it and find thickness and lateral claims are far different to what it says on the tin.

[ellissj] 25/7/2018 08:07

Re the batteries ; in a recent post i contrasted the way this was advised to the market versus graphene announcement in 2015. Ie 'significant' advances in the battery rns versus 'major' advances in the graphene rns. It looks like +nanene is well on its way to be declared publically the de facto 'world lead' once successfully through the US graphene council'verification'process. Therefore, logically, i'm assuming 'significant' means impressive results have been achieved, re gains versus convential, that have a reasonable chance of disrupting the market and gaining adoption ie manufacture, and hopefully widespread at that. Which could play out to render the emerging 'hydrogen' economy redundant. A game changer indeed. Aimo. Dyor. Best ellis.

[lovat scout] 25/7/2018 08:06

The nanene fact sheet has plenty of strength data but can anyone with a scientific background translate that into practical benefits? Is it possible to derive from these numbers how much nanene would be needed to maintain the strength of a plastic bottle and therefore the reduction in raw materials?

I suspect the answer is a tightly held commercial secret and i accept it’s the method used as well as the nanene itself that makes the difference.

[mryl] 25/7/2018 08:06

Shavian, Club, Spike,

Looking at the datasheet, NanoXplore's GrapheneBlack 3X seems to be very similar to 2-DTech's GNP-HP: a high quality few layers graphene powder with large lateral dimension. So not bad at all I guess, depending on the occurrence of defects and on whether independent material characterisation would find the same properties...

The main differences with Nanene are (1) Nanene has a high amount of <5 layer flakes and nearly all <10 layers and (2) Nanene has a very high purity of 98%, while GrapheneBlack 3X is only 91%.

I am really surprised at the expected price per gram of their graphene powder though, given that $10,000 (CAD) per metric ton amounts to 1 cent per gram... Or is my calculation off? How could it go from $100+ per gram for a sample down to only 1 cent per gram for large volumes? Is that the forecast price for 2060??? I smell BS

[superg1] 25/7/2018 08:01

Shavian

I stop looking when I spot an issue.

This is it

'average flake size of 38 μm'

That always on every occasion that I check data sheets equates to multi or many layer graphene.

EG the Cambridge nanosystems average is 300nm which which is 130 times smaller.

Thomas Swann are about 1nm 38 times smaller.

XG recorded science papers say the laterals are so small (C grade) that they can no longer be considered platelets and that they clump together.

One issue with producing GNPs is that if you are to0 harsh with it they lose desired aspect ratios and suffer defects.

XG M grade 18-24 layers hits 5um-25um. Even on H grade at 50 layers they still only have a 5um to 25 um range.

40um is also too big as they fold and crumple (source science papers). The graphs also suggest GNP content including 100 um laterals to 1000 um. So for me that would mean gnp content including many 100's to 1000's of layers.

The pictures look like granular graphite.

There is a host of things wrong with those claims to indicate it's viable graphene. Another point like the claim replaces carbon black for the same performances. If it was quality GNPs under 10 layers the performance would materially improve.

Purity is an issue too the one you list is 91% which moves towards GO. In another it says <6% ash ???

Hence I have largely ignored previous comments.

[spike_1] 25/7/2018 07:58

NanoXplore: Hopefully sg will give a more 'authoritative' answer, however as far as number of layers, they say up to 90% 5 - 10, that is not nearly as good as VRS (Nanene is <6 layers 60%, <11 90%)

Lateral sizes - I can't get my head around - graph is too 'awkward' for my tiny brain.

Apart from anything else they 'hope' to have their first production module up and running by early 2020, so not of immediate 'interest'.

Best wishes - Mike

[willoicc] 25/7/2018 07:54

5UKL is a 5X EFT on the FTSE100

[ellissj] 25/7/2018 07:52

Also check neills twitter ac past few days. Someone asked what the 24 chinese expressions of 'interest' meant. Full share price given. Inc 'testing' Best ellis

[luckyorange] 25/7/2018 07:52

10,000 tons? Bit ambitious that , I have visions of Canada being covered in black snow, no need for any other producers ... in the world.... then!

[club sandwich] 25/7/2018 07:42

Fest - "Time it was put out in the open I think."Good luck with that. This is government - secrecy is second nature. Even the tea lady's biscuit shopping list is covered by the Official Secrets Act! Probably.

[1teepee] 25/7/2018 07:41

Their website and data sheet look very amateurish

[1teepee] 25/7/2018 07:37

It's not just expressing interest, some are testing already

[grabster] 25/7/2018 07:35

thanks Spike. I will have another listen to the podcast.

[superg1] 25/7/2018 07:31

See what happens when batteries get mentioned, that's two media comments now.

Batteries excite the market, they seem to have missed a deal with the Chinese gov which has risen form 1 option to 24. :-)

We knew about the batteries tuning and progress long ago it was in the Cordis report from last November. I was kind enough to send the bears a copy when they were well under water on their shorts.

Some time later the battery news came out.

[spike_1] 25/7/2018 07:30

grabster, actually if you listen carefully to the pod I think you will find that most - if not all - are LoI's. Don't foreget, VRS don't normally 'publish' the existence of LoI's, and we know Janen (spelling?) was an unavoidable exception.

Best wishes - Spike

[superg1] 25/7/2018 07:29

Fest

The content of the meetings may well be official secrets Fest, hence I don't know anyone with loose lips that has a clue what went on there. All we know is they seem excited about them.

[grabster] 25/7/2018 07:26

Owenga - I don't think we can refer to them as deals. Apart from the one described as a Letter Of Intent, many may be merely expressions of interest. I haven't heard them described as more than that - yet. They might be very enthusiastic expressions of interest, or might be casual ones. I am optimistic that several of them will be something more solid in due course - maybe even all of them! Versarien Hong Kong was presumably established with real business in mind. And the number might already be higher than 24. But I'm not counting any China contacts as deals yet.

[grabster] 25/7/2018 07:21

I think it would be counterproductive if people moaned at Mark Robinson about aspects of the Versarien not included in his IC article this week. He should be applauded for spreading the word. IC is owned by the FT. His article was better than those of many journalists whose first attempts have been sloppy. I shall be thanking him and offering one or two salient notes for his next Versarien article. ;-)