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THS Tharisa Plc

78.00
1.00 (1.30%)
18 Jun 2024 - Closed
Delayed by 15 minutes
Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Tharisa Plc LSE:THS London Ordinary Share CY0103562118 ORD USD0.001 (DI)
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  1.00 1.30% 78.00 76.00 78.00 77.00 76.50 77.00 82,537 16:35:13
Industry Sector Turnover Profit EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap
Miscellaneous Metal Ores,nec 649.89M 82.24M 0.2743 2.81 230.84M
Tharisa Plc is listed in the Miscellaneous Metal Ores sector of the London Stock Exchange with ticker THS. The last closing price for Tharisa was 77p. Over the last year, Tharisa shares have traded in a share price range of 47.25p to 84.00p.

Tharisa currently has 299,794,034 shares in issue. The market capitalisation of Tharisa is £230.84 million. Tharisa has a price to earnings ratio (PE ratio) of 2.81.

Tharisa Share Discussion Threads

Showing 1876 to 1899 of 1950 messages
Chat Pages: 78  77  76  75  74  73  72  71  70  69  68  67  Older
DateSubjectAuthorDiscuss
07/2/2024
16:00
Stemis - thanks - ever the logical one.
nigelpm
07/2/2024
15:43
A bit more for those who don't follow LSE:-

Because THS own the majority of Karo Holdings (KH), it doesn't much matter what valuation they place on the shares.

Suppose KH was valued at $325m pre fund raise. THS owns 70% so it's stake is worth £227.5m. THS injects £65m for another 5% so KH is now worth $390m. THS now owns 75% so it's stake is worth $292.5m (amazingly $65m more; the amount it injected).

However let's suppose KH was only worth $125m pre fund raise. THS owns 70% so it's stake is worth £87.5m. THS injects £65m for 5% so KH is now worth $190m. THS now owns 75% so it's stake is worth $142.5m ($55m more; but only $10m less than it injected).

stemis
07/2/2024
12:23
Thanks Tiger
gunner_ni
07/2/2024
10:52
I am unable to find the LSE board. Could somebody please post a link?
gunner_ni
07/2/2024
10:16
and then burying that fact from investors deep in the footnotes of the annual report

Actually was mentioned in the CFO's review

stemis
07/2/2024
10:07
The subscription for shares is effectively part of the capital expenditure in Karo.

If you don't understand my explanation then think of it this way. Suppose you owned 100% of a company with one share which had £1 in it. You decided to subscribe for another share for £1m. So you now still own 100% of the company but with £1,000,001 in it. The second share valued the company at £1m even though it had only £1 in it. Were you ripped off? Of course not, you own all the company!!

stemis
07/2/2024
09:56
Hi Stemis!
I don't see things in the way you do.
Any road, you must see that spending large amounts of company money to buy shares in a risky and all-but-worthless enterprise (Karo), and then burying that fact from investors deep in the footnotes of the annual report, is alarming.
How on earth can Tharisa justify putting a $1.4 bn valuation on a half-built mine in Zimbabwe which requires high platinum and palladium prices to even break even and which is smaller than Tharisa mine itself?!? Just compare the two valuations. It's insane.

tigerbythetail
07/2/2024
09:24
London South East (LSE) - just search "Tharisa share chat" and it will come up.
tigerbythetail
07/2/2024
09:23
Tiger,

I've now had chance to look at the posts on LSE. Although what is said is strictly correct, I think they are getting confused by the accounting.

The gist of the argument, if I'm not mistaken, is that THS have paid $65m for 5% of the shares in Karo Holdings, valuing Karo Holdings at an incredible $1.3bn. Whilst this is true, what they haven't taken account of is that THS didn't buy the shares off the minority holder (Leto settlement) but subscribed for new shares in Karo Holding. The result is that 75% of the $65m still effectively 'belongs' (in the sense of being part of their beneficial holding) to THS. Only 25% i.e. $16m of value has been provided to Leto to reduce their holding from 30% to 25% (so from their point of view, it's valued their holding in Karo Holdings at $320m). Indeed if THS do increase their holding to 80%, that $16m 'effectively' becomes $13m.

Now one can argue that the $16m should be lower, but there may be strategic (or indeed contractual) reasons why they might have agreed that figure (I don't know). However, in the scheme of things, the difference really isn't that material.

stemis
07/2/2024
09:19
Tiger, what is this other board you speak of?How do you mean the money is being siphoned off?
lennonsalive
07/2/2024
09:17
Hi Sotolo!
FWIW, I didn't sell because of the dire state of the PGM market. It will turn back up, sooner or later. As always with commodities, the cure for low prices is low prices. Nor did I sell because I expect the chrome market to crack imminently.
I didn't even sell because the investment into Karo (predicated on a currently unrealistic PGM basket price) is a horrendous mistake - though it clearly is.
I sold because money is being siphoned out of Tharisa, as per the posts on the other board. (Grateful thanks to Mike and Hxol for alerting me to this, which I had previously missed).
Previously, I thought Tharisa was extraordinarily cheap. Even suspiciously so. And I couldn't understand why the BoD didn't simply dump Karo. Now (I think) I understand things a little better, and I don't hold out much hope for this company.
I'd be interested to read a defence of their actions from Tharisa's directors, but unless I've wholly misunderstood the state of affairs, I won't be putting money into this company again.
I'm sorry for once pointing out this company to you. AIM strikes again! IMO, AIM in particular, and perhaps the LSE as a whole, are becoming uninvestable. Stock markets simply don't function without rules and swift and severe punishment for those who bend them out of shape or break them.

tigerbythetail
06/2/2024
22:01
Interesting reading Tiger. Thank you for flagging. It doesn't read well
leopoldalcox
06/2/2024
19:45
Nicky Shiels Head of Metals Strategy at MKS - Platinum 50% of mining supply under water, loss making = reduction in supply which is going to exacerbate the already on going supply deficit.

Low price of EGMs shows the West is already in a recession.

Tharisa share price is down 42.5% from it's 1 year high and 63.7% down from its 3 year high I'm starting to think maybe it's a good time to make an initial small investment.

loganair
06/2/2024
19:30
Tiger I was thinking the same, selling and and taking a loss this week as with PGM collapse and Karl financé at these high rates just to make a loss it looks a bit grim, but thought two things:
First the key metric I watch is the Chromium price. It too is falling, but slowly, down 5% in last 4 months which translates to around 155 drop in our Chromium profit. However that still mops up an awful lot of PGM losses. We could walk away from Karo lose the investment and still be worth more than now. Better we can use chromium profits, as long as price holds up, to stay in business as other PGM miners are driven out reducing supply.
Second, looking in the rear view mirror chromium should make this year pretty good so I thought I would anyway wait till the finals before deciding whether to sell as they could give us a fillip. I expect you are wiser than me but let's see....

sotolo
06/2/2024
09:58
It seems a bit of a convoluted argument but I'll have a look later when I have time.
stemis
06/2/2024
09:34
Stemis - yes.
tigerbythetail
06/2/2024
09:19
A share price falls due to being in a disliked sector. When the share price reaches near its bottom because of this the small private retail investor sells due to fear.

A share price rises due to being in the fashionable sector and when the share price is near its 52 week high, the small private retail investor piles in due to FOMO.

At the moment the price of oil and PGM's are where they are shows the world is currently in recession therefore its the time when to start picking up stocks in these areas as in the next couple of years when the world comes out of recession the prices of these commodities will start to rise again.

loganair
06/2/2024
09:17
Are you referring to the comments about the implied valuation of Karo in changes to Tharisa's holding in it?
stemis
06/2/2024
08:54
I've sold the remaining shares I had here this morning.
I'd recommend studying carefully recent posts on the LSE board.

tigerbythetail
04/2/2024
11:01
The upcoming earnings season for miners such as Implats and Amplats is likely to hold a few nasty surprises — but longer term, some analysts are still bullish:

Earnings from platinum miners in February will tell the story of last year’s wipeout in share prices. According to RMB Morgan Stanley, earnings before interest, tax, depreciation and amortisation (ebitda) for the largest players, including Anglo American Platinum (Amplats) and Impala Platinum (Implats), will be 50%-100% lower. Dividends will be cut to “minimal levels” and capital expenditure will be slashed, it said.

The year 2023 was not a good time to be a platinum group metals (PGM) miner. Amplats, Implats and Sibanye-Stillwater shed between 64% and 36% in value as prices for palladium and rhodium cratered. After a hopeful ripple in the palladium price during the first two weeks of January — likely driven by traders covering short positions — another price correction followed. Share prices so far this year have been a continuation of last year’s form, slipping by between 12% and 14%...


The rest of the article is behind a pay wall....

loganair
04/2/2024
10:05
Palladium is down 38% so far this year and touched $1,083 last week, its five-year low, amid rapid rise of palladium-free electric vehicles and platinum for palladium substitution."Until there is a narrowing of the price differential between the two metals, there is little incentive for manufacturers to return to using palladium at the levels they once were," said David Russell at GoldCore.I have been reading the forecast for 2024, I was under the impression we had bottomed here, but now I'm not so sure. Even though we look incredible undervalued, you can't help thinking we have a long way to fall.
soilderboy
02/2/2024
19:58
Nicky Shiels Head of Metals Strategy at MKS - Platinum 50% of mining supply under water, loss making = reduction in supply which is going to exacerbate the already on going supply deficit.

Low price of EGMs shows the West is already in a recession.

loganair
11/1/2024
20:29
Solid production update from Tharisa Mine today - in a quarter which has been problematic in the past. So that's good.
I note that Tharisa are also floating the idea of raising "ring-fenced" debt funding for Karo. This would be excellent, but I doubt it is achievable. The combined risks of funding Zimbabwe and funding a new medium-cost PGM mine build against the background of a PGM price slump are simply too high.
Personally, I think building Karo is simply a mistake - and not a small one. The assumptions behind it were way too optimistic, and the whole shebang reflects badly on Tharisa's BoD. Where were the checks and balances? The skeptical voices?
IMO, the share price here would rise substantially if the money spent on Karo so far was simply written off and the whole project cancelled.

tigerbythetail
04/1/2024
20:12
Which way? Down through 1000 sadly, palladium worse
sotolo
Chat Pages: 78  77  76  75  74  73  72  71  70  69  68  67  Older

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