Sirius Minerals Share Discussion Threads

[graham2405] 26/2/2020 07:45

Sharesoc says that Anglo’s 5.5p-a-share offer is “undoubtedly opportunistic and takes advantage of the distressed financial position of Sirius”. It notes that “some shareholders have suggested that they will allow their emotions to dictate their vote, preferring to risk everything rather than to accept what they see as an unfair outcome”.

[graham2405] 26/2/2020 06:37

If this deal gets voted down, game over..........

[beeezzz] 25/2/2020 22:07

CF is not going to let this cash cow go bust he has too much invested here, its an operation of scare tactics....Call is bluff is my stance

[ted73] 25/2/2020 15:44

Nows the time

[graham2405] 25/2/2020 15:18

A small point, if a No vote happens next week, don't get caught out (well in) as they may suspend shares before giving the result.

[graham2405] 25/2/2020 15:15

Nigeria......Mmm

Sounds perfectly legitimate, take my money please.......

[graham2405] 25/2/2020 14:55

A few months back a few suggested that 'CF should be nighted' sic, I assume they meant knighted. ;-)

Now they want him put in jail, or worse..... They have even included a few choice suggestions regards his wife and kids. One 'hoped' that his home town in Australia was burning down.

The real issue is, it must be someone elses fault, and that their decision to 'fill their boots' was a valid one.

The idea that they throw the rest away to make a point seems crazy to me.

Just wait for the 'screaming for blood' when the board pull the plug, if the No vote comes to pass.

[schofip] 25/2/2020 12:08

When the ship is sinking due to the captains negligence don't forego the lifeboats just to spite him. Live and learn from it.

[mattab] 25/2/2020 12:03

Didn't have an agenda - IBAB. Just common sense ffs, all posts sensible and fairly spot on.

'Some really didn't seem to have a scooby of the risks they were taking, and many are voting down the deal. Seems they'd rather lose it all and blame SXX than take responsibility for the investment choice and at least walk away with the cash thats on offer.'

Absolutely agree. The blatant rampers are invariably to blame all the way through (on LSE in particular) - at least on the smaller cap shares the de-rampers / or sensible 'rose coloured glasses off approach' as ALL should have with investing...one of the golden rules are invariably proved right. LTH invariably lose out as is common knowledge. Greed for many took over - £1 party many massively in profit and didnt think to take some risk off the table and perhaps watch it fall to say 15% of what they invested and many in massive life - now destroying amounts.

In CF we trust and such a loyal following. IMO he did his best and it is simply just too big without one of the majors. Those promoting a no vote and prepared to lose all is lunacy, think the vote will go through though. So at least they can have their protest and still not lose all.

[graham2405] 25/2/2020 11:15

Another offer is possible, perhaps another penny.

Not sure too many of the all-in merchants would go for it though.

[pazzuzu] 25/2/2020 11:10

And it should be noted Graham was kicked off lse for clearly having an agenda

[pazzuzu] 25/2/2020 11:09

I actually don't think another roffer is too far fetched reading stuff today. It could happen is my opinion on the matter now.

[graham2405] 25/2/2020 10:07

Some real horror stories of punters going all in on this, just crazy.

Some really didn't seem to have a scooby of the risks they were taking, and many are voting down the deal. Seems they'd rather lose it all and blame SXX than take responsibility for the investment choice and at least walk away with the cash thats on offer.

Many actually believe that if they vote the deal down, the management will try harder for a refinancing deal.

As if the outcome wasn't depressing enough, they now appear likely to lose everything.

[bherring27] 25/2/2020 09:17

Well that was obvious.

[beeezzz] 24/2/2020 22:39

Nominee account holder getting shafted...

[graham2405] 24/2/2020 14:00

"There is no way that a company is going offer more if this goes into administration."

If they buy it now it costs them, the amount they handover to shareholders PLUS the bond debt PLUS the amount Gina holds over the assets.

When they buy a company they take on all the liabilities.

In administration, they will have to pay enough to satisfy the administrators who work for the creditors.

So, it is quite possible that the bonds will either be rolled over in to the new company or paid off as part of the price AAL pay the administrators.

The administrators are not going to hand it over for nothing. It does have value for anyone who wants to finish the project.

Just to throw this out there, the only REAL primary creditor is Gina, now she could perhaps take it over for little more than the debt it already owes her.

Creditors do on occasion buy the business.


Further to this, the Qatari's could decide to buy it out of admin, gaining ownership, leaving current management to run it and shafting the shareholders of the 5.5p.

There is more than one way to skin a cat.

[djb3] 24/2/2020 13:38

There is no way that a company is going offer more if this goes into administration. Do ever of you seriously believe that - whoever owns the shares whether its large hedge funds or large personal investors etc... they will all get shafted. Look what happened to Mike Ashley's stake in Debenhams - he lost it all when it went into admin - same thing will happen here.

[graham2405] 24/2/2020 13:24

Also, Qatar could well hold CDSs and they could protect it if the company has an insolvency event.

It is quite common for large funds when purchasing junk bonds (and SXX's bonds are junk) to hold CDSs, thus enabling them to buy junk bonds in the knowledge that they have cover for any potential loss.

[graham2405] 24/2/2020 13:14

"And Graham seems to forget the Qatari Investment Authority were stepping in with a finance package until AAL made an offer."

The Standard, same paper that predicted a bid for Metro Bank, we're still waiting for the bid.

Regardless, yes Qatar have a huge amount of bonds and stand to lose a few hundred million if this goes to administration........or does it?

Given that AAL is a willing buyer, if they do not get it by paying the shareholders 5.5p, then they can get it from the administrators.

...and who do the administrators work for?

The creditors, who in the main are Gina (liens over the assets) and the bond holders, the largest of which is Qatar.

See where I'm going with this.

So, if AAL want to buy it from the administrators they have to do a deal that satisfies the creditors.

So, I suspect that Qatar will get a fair portion of the cash back, without having to risk any more of their capital.

So, Qatars position changed atraight after AAL came on the scene, whether they buy it before or after admin.

Understood?

[graham2405] 24/2/2020 13:08

from casapinos LSE ......"There is a strong possibility that you collectively , could, if you assemble 100+ attendees at next weeks meeting win the "headcount"vote ie a majority of >50% of attendees.If that happens I think it is a corruption of the intention of such provisions and may well prompt legal challenges from both SXX and AAL.That would create a limbo in to which SXX would fall and be declared insolvent"

...and I totally agree with this, it seems that a No vote will force this into an insolvency event.

thus allowing AAL to pick it up in Admin, else walk away.

[djb3] 24/2/2020 12:47

Couldn't agree more bherring27. AAL will be made up, will get it for even less if voted down I really don't understand their logic. I stated it would go bankrupt months ago and a company would come in and get it for buttons. 5.5p is the most they will get, it's not right, but the big fish don't care and AAL will be the big winners.

[bherring27] 24/2/2020 12:44

Deluded the lot of you. There are no new offers on the table. What company in it's right mind is going to help you out if they do not have to. The vote next week is going to pass otherwise you get 0p a share from liquidation and Anglo will clean up at the bankruptcy auction, Anglo are doing the project a favor I would say at 5.5p, That's overvalued anyway, Company with no revenue, Poor management at all levels....It's a caup. CF will walk away fine from all of this.