Flowgroup Plc Share Discussion Threads

[larry335] 02/3/2015 14:06

It's still ok. The flat bit is the head.

[staverly] 02/3/2015 01:14

To Whom it obviously Concerns

Are you tired of living life with so many thoughts chasing around your head? Are you sick of doubting yourself, weighing consequences and options and wondering about the future? Are the problems of the world just too much to think about?
I’m here to tell you about the opportunity of a lifetime. What you need is a lobotomy. That’s right, a lobotomy. The word might scare you. But don’t worry! Gone are the cold turkey, ice pick-up-you-eye-socket days of lobotomies a la Walter Freeman. New technology has revolutionized the way lobotomies are done and a simple approach has been developed that will make yours painless and worry free. Brain surgery these days could cost up to tens of thousands of pounds but if you follow this plan, your lobotomy at most will cost only a couple of hundred pounds!

1. Start with a television. The more comparable it is to the size of your wall the better. And don’t stop at your living room! Put one in your bedroom, in the kitchen, or anywhere else you might spend a lot of time. Make sure you get a cable plan, the cheapest starting at £19.99 a month. Also, with the internet, you don’t even have to pay for cable to receive a steady stream of television and movies! Make sure you stay glued to your computer or television the second you get home from work to prevent any thoughts from creeping into your brain. This is the first step of the process (WARNING: Avoid ADVFN).

2. Once you have a television you’ll be ready for the next step: Video games! Remember when you were a kid and you had to use your imagination and ingenuity to make your own games and pretend you were in a spacecraft or that you were Robin Hood? Well, with recent developments such as Wii (£199 for a console) you can spend all day in your room pretending you are somewhere else and someone else without ever having to use your imagination! Furthermore, with the creation of devices such as PSP (PSP 3000 sells for £169) you can play video games ALL THE TIME! The eventual atrophy of your imagination is key if you plan of having a successful lobotomy.

3. If you are serious about getting your lobotomy you will have to give up your social life altogether. Though if you are considering a lobotomy perhaps you never had a social life to begin with. Instead of actually improving your sorry social life and engaging yourself with others by volunteering or joining a club or a sports team, you can start living vicariously through a pixelated, fabricated version of yourself with games like SIMS or Second Life or World of Warcraft. Not thinking about the stock market will help you ease you into your lobotomy.

4. You might be worrying about your job. How will I pay the mortgage? How will I eat? Well don’t worry! You can still go to your job. Most people who go to work don’t think much anyway. They just do what their bosses tell them to do. And who knows if they’re actually thinking.

5. It is also very important that you avoid going outside as much as possible. You might find yourself in danger of waxing poetic about a sunset or a birdsong or the gentle glow the the stars at night. Poetry will have negative affects on your lobotomy. So will posting stale BS on BBs.


Remember, it is important to follow all these steps diligently. Consistency is a must if you want to eventually lose all of your capacity for thinking. Don’t give up or get discouraged if a stray thought happens to enter your conscience or if your imagination starts working up. If you stick with the plan, you will eventually lose your mind without even realizing it.

ATB
DYOR

[fox you] 01/3/2015 20:07

I'm off to bed 08-45 start, lol
A balanced view from the Telegraph re Flow Gruop Boiler:
See link below for the full article.
Edited version.


Flow Boiler:
The technology also costs thousands of pounds to install and run. Here energy experts give their verdict on the new boiler.

Which households will save money?

Not every home will save £500 with the boiler, which contains a generator powered by a liquid that circulates inside.

Once the liquid heats up, the vapour produced powers a mini-generator, which in turn produces electricity.
As a result, the boiler has to keep burning gas for this "free" energy to be generated. This means that homes where the boiler is on intermittently may not necessarily benefit.


Only homes with the highest gas consumption will save on energy costs, according to figures produced for Telegraph Money. Homes must use at least 32,000 kilowatt hours (kWh) of gas each year - twice the amount used by the average home - to produce the £500 saving, according to Flow Energy.


This is the kind of consumption clocked up by a family of five who are at home all day. This "high consumption" household will generally have heating and appliances on all day, and use the washing machine daily.



By contrast, the "typical" energy user consumes just 13,500 kWh of gas per year. An example would be a three-bedroom property where the family are home for some of the day.



However, variable tariffs are significantly more expensive than fixed tariffs – with £200 between the E.On tariff and the cheapest fixed deal – so Flow customers may be overpaying compared with the cheapest tariffs.
Also, while Flow customers are within the five-year repayment plan, the energy firm pockets any money paid to customers via the "feedin-tariff", an incentive paid by the Government. As much as £300 from the £500 yearly saving is projected to come from this subsidy payment.

Jeff Howell, The Telegraph's home troubleshooter, said the boiler was "unknown technology" that should be approached with caution.
"Don't be a guinea pig unless you are enthusiastic about being green," he said. "This is untried on a large scale. I would want to wait and see if two or three thousand people have used it, and find out how it performs and if it's reliable."


Mr Howell added that new boilers tended to require expensive repairs after five years. "My advice to anybody is to stick with the heating system you have got, unless you can repay any installation costs over five years through energy savings."





ATB and all that BS

Fox You - you decide if to hold, sell or buy!!

[grandwood] 01/3/2015 19:57

F-You, you have really outdone yourself this time; celebrating how "balanced" was the article in the gaurdian last year but then proceeding to only quote the negative side of it! I do hope all those imaginary investors who apparently visit here to benefit from your "intelligence" and "research" appreciate your efforts.

[fox you] 01/3/2015 17:50

A balanced view from the Telegraph re Flow Gruop Boiler:
See link below for the full article.
Edited version.


Flow Boiler:
The technology also costs thousands of pounds to install and run. Here energy experts give their verdict on the new boiler.

Which households will save money?

Not every home will save £500 with the boiler, which contains a generator powered by a liquid that circulates inside.

Once the liquid heats up, the vapour produced powers a mini-generator, which in turn produces electricity.
As a result, the boiler has to keep burning gas for this "free" energy to be generated. This means that homes where the boiler is on intermittently may not necessarily benefit.


Only homes with the highest gas consumption will save on energy costs, according to figures produced for Telegraph Money. Homes must use at least 32,000 kilowatt hours (kWh) of gas each year - twice the amount used by the average home - to produce the £500 saving, according to Flow Energy.


This is the kind of consumption clocked up by a family of five who are at home all day. This "high consumption" household will generally have heating and appliances on all day, and use the washing machine daily.



By contrast, the "typical" energy user consumes just 13,500 kWh of gas per year. An example would be a three-bedroom property where the family are home for some of the day.



However, variable tariffs are significantly more expensive than fixed tariffs – with £200 between the E.On tariff and the cheapest fixed deal – so Flow customers may be overpaying compared with the cheapest tariffs.
Also, while Flow customers are within the five-year repayment plan, the energy firm pockets any money paid to customers via the "feedin-tariff", an incentive paid by the Government. As much as £300 from the £500 yearly saving is projected to come from this subsidy payment.

Jeff Howell, The Telegraph's home troubleshooter, said the boiler was "unknown technology" that should be approached with caution.
"Don't be a guinea pig unless you are enthusiastic about being green," he said. "This is untried on a large scale. I would want to wait and see if two or three thousand people have used it, and find out how it performs and if it's reliable."


Mr Howell added that new boilers tended to require expensive repairs after five years. "My advice to anybody is to stick with the heating system you have got, unless you can repay any installation costs over five years through energy savings."





ATB and all that BS

Fox You - you decide if to hold, sell or buy!!

[hpcg] 01/3/2015 13:46

This is the hidden value of a company with limited message board activity. What is written for or against has no effect on the share price movement.

[farmer george] 01/3/2015 12:50

Fox You, don't you have anything better to do over the weekend rather than mindlessly repeat the same thing over and over? Do you have a medical condition? Suggest you get hobby or get out more.

[blah blah] 01/3/2015 12:49

Because he/she has an agenda, uppompeii. I think the tide has turned though and they are now king Canute shouting at the sea.

One piece of good news and I expect we will never hear from them again.

[uppompeii] 01/3/2015 11:57

1fox1, good point, it is an interesting exercise though in how easy it is to refute and dismiss all of the points made. I'm still not sure why the individual hasn't contacted Flow.

[1fox1] 01/3/2015 00:07

RE Our friend who's safely filtered. Why anyone gives this idiot any airtime is beyond me. Enough said. Good luck all.

[uppompeii] 28/2/2015 22:13

Hopefully now that's been brushed aside this thread can return to its previous state of informed discussion of positives and negatives.

[fox you] 28/2/2015 20:46

Btw Chumps inc the loser above

Show some naffing respect you ungrateful bunch of no hopers!!!

Blame your SP, not me you bunch of fools.


Look it like this, I have no position in this share price and yet the share price is as negative as me.


LOL

Fox You (Hard)

[fs360] 28/2/2015 20:42

Fox you: all that effort for that haha you are a loser, time to jog on and forget your obsession with flowGod blessFerk uXx

[fox you] 28/2/2015 20:39

Hello

Digest this


[...]

Read and decide if to sell, buy or hold - the choice is yours!!

ATB and all that BS

Fox You............


FROM THE ABOVE LINK, EDITED ARTICLE - VISIT THE LINK FOR ALL OF IT - OK.

Domestic boiler company and energy supplier Flowgroup (FLOW) is approaching a moment of truth. It certainly has a product and business model well-suited to the deflationary environment where people need to economise on energy bills, but lack disposable income for an expensive upgrade.
With the launch of its electricity-generating boiler approaching, the story is likely to get increasing coverage in the UK, and steps are underway in the US and Europe also.

There looks a huge opportunity to deliver cost-effective "renewable energy" boilers. Flow appears to be near launching a significantly cheaper such boiler, although domestic boilers are highly competitive and rivals are likely to respond. Buying behaviour may also take time to establish as boilers tend only to be replaced when they fail decidedly.

Furthermore, this company is built on the assumption that the "Feed-in Tariff" for renewable energy continues and the government does not cut subsidies like it did for solar panels in 2011 - prompting 17 such companies to protest the changes were "disastrous for their businesses."

With Flow currently capitalised at £100 million, its shares are therefore interesting as a longer-term trade either way, according to events.

Technology

Flowgroup - financial summary




Consensus estimate
Year ended 31 Dec
2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015
Turnover (£m) 0.13 0.03 0.15 0.01 13.8

IFRS3 pre-tax proft (£m) -3 -3.5 -6.8 -5 -10.2
Normalised pre-tax profit (£m) -3 -3.5 -3.5
-5 -7.7
-10.1
-0.7
Normalised earnings/share (p) -5.1 -5.4 -5.4 -5.6 -5.5 -4.2 -0.3
Cash flow per share (p) -6.8 -1.4 -2.8 -3.3 -5.2
Capex per share (p) 2.2 1.9 2.2 2.8 3
Net tangible assets per share (p) 5.2 10.1 1.5 9 6.7
Source: Company REFS.
The technology of the micro CHP boiler -combined heat and power - is not novel; see this 2013 comprehensive guide of various manufacturers and the Baxi range is already offered by British Gas. Flow's boiler is likely to be cheaper, however, and marketing will astutely tie customers into its energy provision side, Flow Energy.

The deal is said to involve a five-year package where the boiler "pays for itself" over this time as a result of rebates via feed-in tariffs.

A Flow customer nearby me similarly cites "non-existent to chaotic" customer service, but says he is saving money as a result of switching to Flow on direct debit. According to surveys it does appear that Flow is among lower-cost providers, although you need to mind the word "effectively" as regards the new boiler only needing payment for in terms of installation. This claim factors in rebates over five years as a result of the boiler providing electricity for use in the home or back to the national grid.



Not enough for larger families

The first boiler is mooted to be an 18 kilowatt model. However, this may not be enough for larger houses/families, and a combination boiler isn't yet developed - so Flow's offering needs to evolve to address the market convincingly.

While Flow may not have a wide-open opportunity ahead, it remains possible to consider scope to evolve in the way Telecom Plus (TEP) has grown since the late 1990s from a small AIM-listed "multi-utility" to become a £1 billion-plus company in the Mid 250 index - despite rivalry among utilities and stickiness in persuading people to switch. Furthermore, Telecom Plus has only marketed in the UK whereas Flow is taking steps for much bigger markets in America via a trial with NRG Inc., and "all appropriate markets globally" via an international energy company, initially in Europe. Flowgroup only needs to achieve a slice of Telecom Plus's progress for its stock to multiply.

l.

With the shares just over 40p, Flow's current £100 million value looks a fair stab in the trick art of weighing progress and prospects; the lack of earnings making price changes sensitive to "the story". In early October, a non-executive bought 25,000 shares at 39p to own 344,692 overall after first half 2014 results showed £4.2 million cash consumed by operations, those six months, and £11.5 million cash reserves at end-June.

[larry335] 28/2/2015 20:38

BTW, if anyone is interested in the history...check out the agreement that Energetix had with Daalderop prior to 2012. Daalderop had said they would manufacture 30,000 boilers using the Energetix ORC tech. All went quiet and then suddenly Daalderop had a new agreement with Ceres...they never made the ORC boilers...It seems Daalderop preferred the fuel cell tech.
BG were big supporters of Ceres. BG are not so vocal now...although Ceres still mention BG in their presentations etc. on their website.

[larry335] 28/2/2015 20:23

Fox You
Is that it?
I am very disappointed in the educated brain (sorry) :-)

I guess you don't know much about Ceres.
That project (2012) sadly crashed and burned. I think issues with fuel cell degradation and Ceres had funding problems because they tried to set up their own production. (I'm surprised you weren't giving it some on the bb at the time...you would have loved it...missed opportunity there...)

Ceres nearly folded end of 2012, changed director, just managed to survive and have a testing agreement with KD Navien now. I think they are at least 2 years away from a boiler launch...

BTW it wasn't/isn't a combi (no hot water, people in South of England wouldn't buy it etc. etc.) ;-)

[malcolmmm] 28/2/2015 20:20

Disruptive technology
Basically the Flow Boiler is a microCHP (combined heat and power) boiler. Large scale CHP has been available for many years in hospitals and hotels but due to their size, weight, noise and cost they have been impractical to bring to domestic use. Instead, microCHP or domestic CHP is relatively new and Flowgroup’s costs have come down mainly because the cost of “scroll expanders,” which are one of the key components in its boiler, have come down hugely in price. Scroll expanders are often deployed in refrigeration and in the air conditioning units used in cars and the advent of hybrid vehicles has led to their further development and made them a standard component available at low cost.
There are other companies that presently have a microCHP system on the market – Baxi is probably the best known with its Ecogen boiler – but what makes Flowgroup special is that its price point is less than half the £6,000-£8,000 that the Baxi costs.

Patented technology
As we are learning, a domestic CHP system basically comprises two elements. The first is an efficient gas-fired condensing boiler, which heats your hot water and through your heating system your house. The second part is the element, which captures the heat produced and uses it to produce electricity, which is used in the house or can be exported to the grid. It might sound simple but there is a high science behind the actual process of converting the heat to electricity. The Flow designed power unit, which carries out the process, is fully protected by patents and is unique to Flowgroup.
Thermodynamically, Stiff says Baxi’s boiler uses a “stirling engine” to carry out this process (I shall leave you to Google this if you are interested but it’s like a piston engine) whereas Flowgroup uses something known as the “organic rankine cycle.”
Flowgroup’s process is very similar to that which you will find in a coal fired power station. In such plants, burning the coal heats water in pipes coiled around the boiler, turning it into steam. The hot steam expands in the pipes, so when it emerges it is under high pressure. This is then expanded through a steam turbine, turning the blades and generating power. The fluid is then condensed back into a liquid with no recovery of heat.
In the case of Flow Boiler, the steam turbine is replaced with a scroll expander and instead of steam an organic liquid is used. The combustion heat from the burning of the gas is used to evaporate the liquid, which is fed through the scroll expander and in turn, powers a generator. The fluid then condenses and is used to heat the water for the domestic system

[uppompeii] 28/2/2015 19:56

Re: Ceres

I would have posted the more recent final results from 2014 but unlike this one from June 2013 I couldn't find a mention of BG.


Wonder if they use their boilers in summer in the key market for Ceres of South Korea?

Commercial Update
With KD Navien (KDN) we have secured the first stage of a long term partnership funded by KDN where they will collaborate with us with the intention to develop and commercialise a low cost natural gas fuel cell micro-CHP Product for the residentialand commercial mass market in South Korea, as well as other strategic markets. Over a 12 month period from July 2013, we will provide KDN with our technology to allow them to evaluate its design and operating performance. Additionally over the period, KD Navien and Ceres will begin the design phase for a new 1kW micro-CHP product by leveraging each company's strengths, developing a product commercialisation plan and agreeing the commercial structures for licensing and development for the next phases of the programme.


You'd think BG would get a bigger mention wouldn't you? Perhaps BG may wonder if there is a market for boilers in the south of the UK ?

The Group recognises the importance of its existing contracts, particularly those with British Gas in the UK and Itho-Daalderop in the Netherlands. Although Ceres' initial OEM product partners are likely to launch product in their own countries first, these existing contracts could be important beachheads into Europe for them and other potential partners.

[malcolmmm] 28/2/2015 19:51

F.U. you take a lot of time and trouble reeling out a load of bull, makes me think that you are shorting these or working for a rival boiler system. Flow have patents no one can touch their superior technology. Am back in target 100p in a year or two😋

[rufio90210] 28/2/2015 19:50

FLOW had an update 5th March last year, should be in for the same this week.