Finance Ireland Share Discussion Threads

[jaxaxe] 11/11/2002 23:19

Sparky,
your days of easy living are coming to an end;Id hazzared a guess that the biggest fire that youve attended was a bonfire....or a smoking chip pan.The public will only benefit from a restuctured fire service.
If you lot hadnt been so full of yourselves and made lunatic demands the can of worms as regards the watch system and the practise of sleeping on duty would never have been opened.
Putting fires out isnt rocket science...neither is checking fire hydrants and spending an hour traipsing around factories and shopping centres...the vast part of your work can be done by anyone with rudimentary training.
Get your self on strike and stay on strike....and let the media machine get to work.
PS. whilst your on strike use your time wisely and attend some further education classes.
Your comrade - jack...(can I join the band).

[sanc] 11/11/2002 23:15

DO NOT AGREE WITH GOING ON STRIKE AT ALL!!!!!!
YOU ARE HERE TO DO A PUBLIC SERVICE - IT WAS YOUR CHOICE TO BECOME A FIRE FIGHTER, THIS IS WHAT YOU SHOULD DO!
YES YOU NEED A PAY RISE BUT PUTTING THE PUBLIC AT RISK BECAUSE OF A STRIKE IS WRONG.
ITS JUST LIKE A NURSE STANDING BY A PATIENTS BED AND SAYING 'SORRY I CAN'T TREAT YOU BECAUSE I WANT MORE MONEY' - THATS HOW STUPID A STRIKE SOUNDS..!

STRIKING IS NOT THE RIGHT WAY OF DOING THIS!!

[wageslave] 11/11/2002 23:13

No, but I see a lot of fireman on Bloomers talking about their share clubs. Nice work if you can get it. On a more serious note, the report on the fire service today did look at some important issues, particularly recruitment and the lack of women and minority groups in the service. These have been issues that have plagued the profession for years and will need to be sorted out.

[techno1] 11/11/2002 23:11

BC108
What a superb post .
I am ex- fire Brigade, but became disillusioned and left.
It was getting me down, the "we shouldn,t have to do that" attitude ,too many
just wear the uniform and draw the pay.
Some great ideas to shake em up. Well done.

[terry91] 11/11/2002 23:09

jax,

Well put they are well on the way to a private fire service. Better still they are digging there own grave.

[bigboyo] 11/11/2002 23:03

did anyone see coronation street today ?

makes you wonder what we value ? well paid professional firemen or city spivs ?

[jaxaxe] 11/11/2002 22:57

BC108
a very well thought out out post,though I doubt that the firemen would agree.They have it in their minds that they are indespensible as did the miners.They really are shooting themselves in the foot with this stance...they effectively want their cake and think they can eat it as well.
Its as plain as a pikestaff that they wont accept new practises as regards the reform of the watch system.Its too cushy a number!
The newly adopted self imposed title of fire fighter is ludicrous,about 10% of a firemans time is spent fighting fires the rest is spent checking hydrants and other mundane tasks.I own some commercial property and recently it had afire inspection...six firemen and and an engine turned up on the doorstep and stayed for an hour.
The quicker that the fire service is privatised the better.....at present the money spent on it in the main is squandered.
jax.

[bc108] 11/11/2002 22:15

Name calling by both sides on this BB is not going to help.

I suspect that there is genuine disbelief amongst the rank and file firemen that their functions could possibly be privatised. Lets look at the doomsday scenario, and see if a realistic new structure can be conjectured.

The miners thought the mining industry was so important that it could not possibly be allowed to go down the pan. Privatisation of the railways was such a stupid idea, it beggared belief. Yet it happened.

Who would be interested in tendering to supply crews for the local authorities stations?. My guess, for starters: Serco, Jarvis, Rentokill Initial.

How will they ensure quality of service?. Targets.

And how to ensure qualified personel?. Qualifications, NVQs consisting of written exams together with the smoke filmed room test as well as the fear of working at heights & fitness tests, re-sat regularly.

The training schools would probably be best run by SERCO, who specialise in this type of service.

You dont need a team of highly skilled professionals and an expensive wagon to test hydrants, this could be safely contracted out to a man and a van. And fire safety officers could be trained up in an independant, professional organisation to check the fire safety of premises. (I know this would impact the forces local knowlege, but measures would be taken to counteract this, at least in principle , e.g. computer databases available on the locale in every fire wagon?)

There may even be more gradations in seniority, so that a school leaver doesnt get full whack after basic training, but gets recognition of the skills/ experience over many years, aquiring more qualifications on the way (as in many truly skilled jobs). A far longer apprentice ship. A senior 45 year old fireman probably would earn 30K, but will have to work his way up to that level. No doubt he would start out after basic training on 14 or 16K.

The private companies providing the teams would have to put effort into building true teams, as they do in the real world, if their teams dont perform, they would face financial penalties and problems getting new contracts.
I dont think that recruitment would pose a huge problem, even with these tougher conditions are imposed, perhaps there would no longer be 40 applicants for every post, but there would certainly be several.

And of course it would be possible to pay central London firemen a lot more than those in Bradford, or in other low houseprice, low cost of living , high unemployment areas.

Market forces would apply.

If anyone else, firemen, policemen, paramedics, capitalists, bystanders would like to criticise these sketchy thoughts, please go ahead. There may be some glaringly obvious reason why the fire services can not be provided by a privately run body.

To implement the above, and keep the public on side, the government needs a catalyst. An unpopular long drawn out series of strikes for a ridiculous (percentage increase wise)wage claim fronted by an abrasive and unsympathetic (in the public's perception) leader would lead to dissent and eventual break up in union ranks. Just as in the miners. Divide and rule. The smart thing for the brigade (IMHO) would be to take the ten percent (negotiated into one increase), and fight working practice reform. You may still keep some sympathy. Police style shift working may be imposed though, I suspect this is "a given" now. I also suspect privatisation would impair real life quality of service, but politicians will be able to put forward compellingly spun arguments as to why it will be better privately run and incentivised.

Through the glass darkly
BC108

[jaxaxe] 11/11/2002 22:04

Sparky,
....but these are your adoring public,your customers - you have to listen to them,you cant just switch on when some misguided person agrees with you(which up to press no one has...or hadnt you noticed)!
I told you what would happen and you wouldnt listen youve been watching too much telly and spending too much time in the club instead of taking note of your customers...(the customer is always right).I appreciate that you have had a sheltered life embraced in the warm bossom and cosy confines of fellow firemen;in those circumstances your outlook on reality becomes distorted and theres a tendancy to believe that your living normally ...I have to tell you that its little more than a dream.Perhaps its a side effect of the copious drags of oxygen that you inhale whilst whisking your way to the ubiquitious smoking chip pan..whatever it is its all fantasy.You have no friends apart from those in the service...they have to be your band because only they are on your wave length and you feed off each other and get high on talk of pumps and appliances....even now whilst reading this youre probably arroused at the mention of the word appliance.The fire station is your only succour in a life that was always destined to be humdrum and mundane.
You will fight them on the ladders,on the engine-and on the turn table you will never surrender.....Is that the sort of rousing speeches that get your dander up at the station...Ill bet it is.
Sadly for you your fellow fire workers and you are very vulnerable we the public gave you your high status and now youre throwing it back in our faces....you are going to learn a hard lesson.There will be very few supporters cheering you on on the picket lines....just as you have no support here.You will be forever remembered as the workers who wanted more and more.
Never again will you have status in the publics eyes-contempt will be your reward.
see you on the picket lines.
jack.

[maxheadroom] 11/11/2002 21:09

And feet held higher - S.Milligan

[sparky999] 11/11/2002 20:59

You can bleat all you want,Water off a ducks back.If you are too stupid to see the arguement then thats your problem.


Come wednesday I am out.Head held high.

[snowmann] 11/11/2002 20:45

Yeah right , if you had to work the shift patterns everyone else works the fire service would fall apart .
What a load of self-serving cobblers .

Dont tell me , you are on strike for pay without modernisation for the public`s benefit ? Well i suppose you will fool somebody out there .

Nurses and others , who are professionals , would never just walk out knowing people would die as a result .

[sparky999] 11/11/2002 19:46

I will be out wednesday with my head held high.I will be surrounded by a band of true friends and brothers as I am everyday.



Nobody ever said fighting for what you believe in was easy.You will never understand.

[maxheadroom] 11/11/2002 19:14

Yes leave your post and let the Forces lads take the risk - Honourable men?
I'd sack the lot of you!

[boonyed] 11/11/2002 19:11

Everybody out!!!!

[maxheadroom] 11/11/2002 18:53

Just face it Sparky you're not worth £30k