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[jonc] 11/11/2002 18:42

Good points brainclamp.

They want parity with the private sector but they don't want to actually join it.

You couldn't make it up.

LOL.

[brainclamp] 11/11/2002 18:28

11% - With sufficent changes in working practices we might even have the Firemen working for a living.

The Fire Service should be privatised. Their jobs should be contracted out just like the postmen.

They should then join the ranks of people having to re-apply for thier jobs on a self employed/contractor basis. Its far easier to priviatise something like the fire service than a natural monopoly like the Railways.

In this way - no fireman can have any cause for complaint - they will be paid thier true worth as professionals.

Why aren't you arguing for privatisation Sparky? Wouldn't that give you the same pay as 'a comparable job in the private sector'?, your pay would keep up with the private sector - one of your biggest bones of contention.

[sparky999] 11/11/2002 18:11

Oh dear.



Looks like it will kick right off now.

[spongy2] 11/11/2002 17:11

Semi-skilled? lol.
Still,.. in this potty thatcherite age when you call a typist skilled,
I suppose a fireman must be halfway there.

[maxheadroom] 11/11/2002 16:20

Deduct 10% from the offer for every week they strike. Well that's my view.

Most of the lads in the RAF that are covering for these greedy, workshy, semi-skilled prats are on £16,000 and they really will be risking their lives as they won't have had either the training nor access to proper equipment. Even so, I just hope the government does not give in!

[brainclamp] 11/11/2002 15:27

Other unions will now go on strike for other public sector workers; the paramedics they receive 2K less than the firemen and do genuine work.

[jaxaxe] 11/11/2002 15:12

Its a cracking pay offer,though in all fairness the 11% should have been given in one lump and not stretched over 2years..it obviously wont appease sparky and boon because it wont be enough,but as John c points out,its a decent rise when the level of inflation is taken in to acount:Noone else in any sector will get anything like this sort of increase....as Im sure the media machine will soon be pointing out.
Im very much looking forward to hearing the views of our resident bb fire workers,sparky in particular...his asperations have surely been shattered,his visons of the high life of fast women and even faster cars are now mere fleeting fancies that are evaporating as rapidly as the puddles of tears on his appliance dash board....my heart goes out to the poor soul!
Will they strike...yes...but the world wont stop turning and contrary to sparkys befuddled view the public will take the view that 11% is a damn sight more than anyone else is ever likely to get and is quite fair.
Youve been doneup like a kipper...think yourselves lucky that youre getting 11%...and some new working practises(youre gonna love those).
seasons greetings,
Jack.levi.

[jonc] 11/11/2002 14:02

11%. Very fair with such low inflation.

[brainclamp] 11/11/2002 13:21

The FBU are now rejecting the 11% - as it would mean changes in working practices - especially the 'nightshift'.

So the Strike is going ahead anyway.

[dobcroft] 11/11/2002 09:22

Heard two guys from Doncaster FS interviewed on BBC Five Live this morning. Certainly gave me the impression that they were more concerned about the 'conditions' of employment than about pay. Basically they tried to argue;

1. Our union fought for these conditions 25 years ago, and this dispute is about pay and pay only.
2. We have learned new skills over the years for no extra pay.
3. We are a professional body, the Government has admitted that we are a professional body, and the average pay for a professional is £30k.

The interviewer came across a lot smarter than the two FF guys, and I would guess most listeners would have been thinking;

1. Worried about their other job.
2. Haven’t we all?
3. B*ll*cks!

[sparky999] 11/11/2002 00:24

yawn!!!

Plan A.....strike

Plan B.....strike


We believe we have taken a reasonable arguement to them.The fact they have agreed the old pay formula was not working and have agreed to give us new one only strengthens the arguement that the pay has slipped (atleast 21%)by the governments own figures.Therefore to tell us that the figures quoted are pie in the sky just doesn't hold water.

It will be a strike until they wake up and smell the coffee.

[jonc] 10/11/2002 16:10

Err I think you have got hold of the wrong end of the stick jax.

Jon C

[jonc] 10/11/2002 14:08

You have to bear in mind jax that most of those on this thread supporting the FBUs claim are also employed by the taxpayer and WANT the FBU to get the 40% as it will help them with their pay claims.

The last thing they want to see is the FBU beaten.

[jaxaxe] 10/11/2002 13:56

Bristol Baz,
thank you for your caring words,I also hope I never need their services either-thankyou once again for thinking of my welfare.
The metaphorical traipse around the supermarket was a joy,you really do have a fertile imagination...I never knew that beans came in tins-I really must pop into a supermarket one day ...a Tescos,I shall take your advice and get the Heinz ones and not the own label brand.
Thanks again,keep the home fires burning - and dont forget to put the sheep out!
Your good friend,J.Levi.

[bristolbaz] 10/11/2002 13:38

I don't think the 40% raise is going to buy them new cars Jackie.

It will mean however that they will be able to have Heinz Baked Beans instead of your own choice, Tescos' value brand.

I truly hope you never need their services.

[jaxaxe] 10/11/2002 13:32

Sparky,
You should stay in bed longer if youre so tired...apart from at the fire shop that is!
Your own colleague Boon admits that 40% is pie in the sky,sorry to break it to you but all those times that youve spent staring at pictures of new cars and the visons of new wealth were only fantasies with no substance;its hard I know,your dreams have been dashed..all gone up in smoke!But you should now conjur up newer and more realistic images of things that you can spend the 5% on - a new bicycle perhaps or a pogo stick,or something for the house perhaps,a nice lamp or a bookshelf....theres all sorts.Have you seen the new Argos catalogue - theres tons of stuff in there that are around the 5%mark.
Remember me Sparky as you gaze lovingly at your new bookshelf and think pleasent thoughts about a man who has enriched your mundane life with new horizons and differant ideas.
Take care Sparky,
your wonderful friend jack. (cant seem to smell the nescaffe yet-are you sure you put the kettle on)!

[jaxaxe] 10/11/2002 11:54

Sparky,
please remove that ball and chain of gloom from your fireproof wellington.There will not be a winter of discontent...Id hazzared a guess that you were in short trousers during that ill named period anyway.The FBU will take whats offered,as Boon says everybody knows that the 40% was pie in the sky-even Gilchrist knows it...it really was a bad move going in too strong-Gilchrist was badly advised(or may be he did it off his own back).
I dont wish to the trivialise the death of your colleague but people die in all walks of life...its not a bargaining point - its part and parcel of the job.I wouldnt denigrate the job you do because in all honesty I feel that the fire service does remarkable things -and so do other services such as the paramedics who have differant life saving skills.
Some of your co-workers have put themselves on pedestals and got caught up in hype of calendar pinups and tv heros..flavour of the month with the blue rinse set......next month it might be policemen-or security guards....but its not real!Whether or not you go on strike will mean buggar all to the vast majority of the population-apart from those whose houses are on fire....its a fact of life if it dosent affect you it doesnt concern you...someone elses problem-thats life!And the British people are used to putting up with things going wrong and queueing and all the rest of the paraphanaillia that makes up normality.The world wont end if the fire brigade doesnt put fires out...youre just a small cog in the movement of the British work force.And to use the conflict in Iraq as a bargaining tool would only prove counter productive....hardly condusive to winning popular support from the much bigger body of men and women of the armed forces...and they are a great part of the public.
Its smashing to have what you think is a master plan....but if it goes wrong(which in all honesty Gilchrists has)....Is there a plan B,its to be hoped so for your sake!
regards, jack.

[zuke.] 08/11/2002 23:48

You Talk a lot of sense my friend !!

[brainclamp] 08/11/2002 23:15

Blair is a ex-barrister - also not well know is that he specialised in Employment Law. He actually served along with Lord Irvine - now the Lord Chancellor, representing our politically independant justice system, recently caught using his influence to raise funds for the Labour party.

The Labour party, is a collection of influencial friendships and networks representing interests totally distant and alien from ordinary people.
Whenever there is a chance to represent big money interests over the interests of ordinary people, they win.

Jack is right to point out the maceovellian ways they can operate. They can make black seem like white and spin it back again. The FBU are like a ant dealing with a finely tuned media machine being lead up a predictable path.

Of course in this case its in the interests of the public to sort out Gilchrist and the bully boys.

[mick p] 08/11/2002 23:09

For those who know the BB , this is not Smellberg .... I'm afraid she is being
cyberstalked by a rather disturbed individual . The ll is capital ii's ie..II.

Probably end up eith some witty remarks worthy of Noel Coward........not....

cheers

[smeiiberg] 08/11/2002 22:49

full of skidmarks!!!