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[jaxaxe] 08/11/2002 21:06

Boon,
In all honesty I have to tell you that youre actions wil be in some way thwarted by machevellian tactics-and some of those tactics will be used within and by union members themselves as well as the ones used by the governments hirelings.
Personally-I like Blairs Britain,it does more for the workers than any other government has-its certainly much fairer than the old Thatcher era..in those days the rich most certainly got richer-for example if you had a hundred large in the bank it earned you fifteen grand per year in interest...now its peanuts-and the stock markets all over the place and only for the very clever,lucky or the brave.(Ive lost what some would consider a very considerable amount...in Thatchers Britain Id have been earning a damn sight more than I am today and been far wealthier....for doing absolutely nothing!
You really do want to thank your lucky stars that its a labour government thats in power,the old Tories wouldnt have put up with Gilchrists demands as long as this government has....at least theyre talking,but Blair is a very petulant
animal,he hates losing and hes cunning...ex barister same as his mrs..
At the present timethe FBU are just an annoying tic buzzing around causing ripples but youre being appeased by the powers and being kept talking because of the war which will most certainly take place within weeks in Iraq.
When that conflicts over,and it wont take longer than a week or two Tony will turn his attention to your firm....Gilchrist will be lucky if he gets to drive a milk float never mind a fire engine;youll get a pay rise(quite deservedly too-believe it or not I respect the work that the fire service do)your working practices will change though.And the fire service will never operate in the same model as it does now,every fire person will sign new contracts of employment with a no strike clause written in it-those that dont sign will be sacked....every body will sign because of the pay rise..and because the government will have you by the balls.
Boon,Ive been round the block afew times in my life-and there isnt much that Ive not seen or done in this country and in others...Ive letters on my desk from MPs and peers and from others who have fought and lost campaigns against governments and powers that they hadnt a chance of winning....many are in places a lot more less desirable than your fire station rest room,they all upset someone higher up in power than them.....and these guys are clever-if these fellows couldnt win a government then believe me the likes of Gilchrist wont!
Good Luck -read this again in three months time,if Im wrong you can cheerfully castigate me to all and sundry.
Jack.

[boonyed] 08/11/2002 19:21

Or his downfall.........hopefully!

BOON

[brainclamp] 08/11/2002 14:00

FBU = NUM in the 1980's with thier strong arm tactics. The result - mass contraction of the mining industry years ahead of what would have occured naturally, mass pit closures as energy policy changed. Sweeping changes to union power and working practices which defined the Thatcher Government.
The energy industry swung to gas turbine generators double speed causing more closures. The miners also had the strong support and sympathy of the public.

Gilchrist and you lot seroiusly think you have the government and the public in a headlock with bully boy tactics? What do you think the outcome will be?

This could be Blairs finest moment.

[bc108] 07/11/2002 23:18

Jaxaxe, I think you are spot on in your assessment. The Sun headline will no doubt read just that: "She died because they wanted 40%". Attention will be drawn to the fact that there are 40 applicants for every post, there is generous early retirement, that beds are provided so that night shifts are slept through, that 1 hour in ten is spent attending incidents (of which many are false alarms), that the jobs are less dangerous than those of building labourers and farm hands, though the entry qualifications are similar..
The list will go on. The proportion of ethnic minorities in the force will be scrutinised.

Contrast will then be drawn with nurses, with poorer wages and big recruitment /retainment problems, yet more qualifications for less pay and poorer working conditions. (Nurses dont have beds provided for sleep during night shifts).

The government will find some way of forcing the fire service into some sort of quasi privatisation/ bidding out for service supplied. Private sector "efficiencies" will be sought. I suspect that in five or seven years from now your average sparkie will be wishing hed kept his head down and taken what was offered without industrial action and the repercusions.

Local authorities can fire and re-employ entire teaching workforces. Nurses can find them selves abruptly unemployed if they become too expensive. The bin men have a tough time.

The comparison between the FBU leader and the NUM leader will stand the test of time. Scargill was no doubt correct in many respects, but he lead his men down the road to perdition.

The firemen are locked into their course, I feel sorry for the public and the squadies who will die, and sorry for the sparkies who will be brought face to face with some very harsh new economic realities down the line, because for sure the goverment will find a way.
Best of luck
bc108

[jaxaxe] 07/11/2002 22:08

Sparky,
I appreciate that you are your posts are a little biased in respect of your fellow fire workers-and your union representative,however,youre way off the mark in assuming that the public will turn against the government if you lot go on strike...I think you will discover that the opposite is nearer the truth.
Every worker in this country would love to get a 40% pay rise but they know they would never get it....And they wont appreciate you lot getting more than them...it doesnt matter whether youre worth it or not..its a fact of life(youll learn as you get older)!
You may think Gillchrist is clever,the truth is hes a ametuer and the government are toying with him...theyre experts at it,its a big firm - far bigger than the fbu and if you think the government are going to let the likes of Gillchrist have one over on them then your crackers.They have the full media at their disposal-plus the armed forces and access to whatever and whoever they wish.Ill give you an example,when Gillchrist made an appearance on sky tv they put a caption at the side of him giving out his educational qualifications...(left school at 16 -no qualifications..open university dropout).They portrayed him as a numbskull....and quite frankly he doesnt endear himself as anything but that.
They will carry on talking and talking till they get a soloution together to thwart the fbu...just as they did with the miners,it was the hottest summer for years when they went on strike and whilst all the talking was going on the army and private contractors were filling the power stations up to the gunnells with coal and coke....enough supplies to last the year that the miners were out..But that wasnt the only thing that defeated them it was the splitting f the union - and thats what will happen with the fire service.
Its a fact of life that everybody has their own agenda-beit politicions,crooks,workers or even the general public.The FBU have screwed up by firstly putting Gillchrist in the driving seat and secondly by asking for a ludicrous amount in one lump...whoever thought of that stratagy was unrealistic and silly;even I wouldnt baulk at 10% with further rises to follow but 40%in one lump-it really does look greedy...it was very badly thought out-and to see Gillchrist demanding it or else!is lunacy.
Christmas is coming and the public will have more on their minds than firemen striking...its gone on too long andthe public are bored of it-its old news and todays news is tomorrows chip wrappers...you might not have noticed but Gillchrist is being kept off the news,the only reason that the media had him on was to portray him as a millitent thug...at the governments bequest.
Dont imagne that you will be able to usethe death of a member of the public to further your cause...the exact opposite will be the case...it wont be a case of it was the governments fault because they wouldnt pay us enough it will be
more like the firemen let them die because they wanted 40%....

[boonyed] 07/11/2002 22:05

Admiral Sir Michael Boyce, the chief of the defence staff, warned that a prolonged dispute would jeopardise Britain's ability to take part in any military operations against Iraq.

Britain's most senior military officer told MPs that providing cover during fire strikes was an operation where "politically it was not possible not to deliver".

In a clear reference to Iraq, Sir Michael said the dispute would put "severe constraints on the government's ability to make decisions it otherwise would [make]".

Altogether, 19,000 military personnel have been on standby since last month to crew ageing green goddess tenders. Seven warships have been taken out of operational service to train Royal Navy firefighters.

Sir Michael told the Commons defence committee that frontline units had been "stripped out" to provide "would-be firefighters".

He said: "The situation at the moment is such that if there was a large-scale or medium-scale operation, we would have great difficulty in coping. We are trying to balance our efforts. Certainly for a couple of months we could cope with other eventualities, but if this runs on into next year we shall have extreme difficulty."

Military commanders are drawing up contingency plans for a medium-sized force, plus sea and air support - thought to number about 20,000 personnel in all - to join an attack on Iraq by the US government.

Saddam's O.K. for a while yet then!
I feel sorry for the British people, they should put pressure on the Government to end this situation, before something terrible happens.

[kingfish] 07/11/2002 12:22

Fast Player/Sportauto,

[boonyed] 07/11/2002 09:58

Quality posts!

[boonyed] 07/11/2002 00:54

Recent British Firefighter deaths in the UK
1990: Six
1991: Four
1992: Three
1993: Four
1994: Two
1995: Five
1996: Three
1997: One
2002: One

It's only down to proffessionalism, training and dedication that there haven't, thankfully, been more deaths.

But that's a good thing........right?

BOON

[jaxaxe] 07/11/2002 00:35

Johnel,
Deepsea diver,oilrigs,scaffolder,roofer,publican,policeman,soldier......the list goes on - even farming is deemed as more dangerous:Tken from Augests edition of Gatelodge.
JAX.

[jaxaxe] 07/11/2002 00:13

Boneyed,
...just remind me has to how many times it is now in total that youve been going to stage these strikes-and how many have there actually been....if my memory serves me right its a grand total of,let me see....zero.And how much extra cash have you got in your pocket....once again - zero.Seems to me that your hero just likes talking ...and making promises..and making you lot look silly....I feel sorry for you lot,hes got you all fired up (excuse the pun)for nothing,for a chap with only one O level (in metal work)hes certainly done well at getting where he is....But in the kingdom of the blind the one eyed man is king.
Would you care to wager a bet that you wont be on strike on the 13th and that talks will be continuing till the snow arrives....better send the christmas presents back to empire stores....youll not be getting 40% this crimbo.
ho HO HO!
JAX.

[johnel] 07/11/2002 00:07

I can see that there are some jobs more dangerous than fire fighting but I can not believe there are 18 jobs which are riskier. Where did you get the information from?

[brainclamp] 06/11/2002 23:03

Oh - I've found out.
A fitness test for selection and good eyesight. Then 16 weeks basic training.
Doesn't sound to hard to me. Hopefully be joining you boys in your 'work' and get to be a hero too.

Be joining you in your 'heroism'. Striking over an 'independant' review of pay and letting people die.

[brainclamp] 06/11/2002 16:47

Christ - Avon Brigade say on thier recruitment literature that a firemans job is "the UK's best kept secret". I am seroiusly going to give it ago.

What is the selection procedure like for being a fireman?

What medical tests do they put you through?

[jaxaxe] 06/11/2002 15:17

Fast player,
Would I be correct to assume that English is your second language....and that necrophillia is just one of your less endearing habits.
....You obviously didnt get the job on offer at remploy ....keep trying!
I shall pray for you!
Jax.