Carillion Share Discussion Threads

[this_is_me] 22/5/2017 12:02

Well that is an interesting RNS.

[sux_2bu] 19/5/2017 16:03

Going to add more....either before the bell or Monday morning.

[sux_2bu] 19/5/2017 10:11

Won't be getting 170p then... so bought some recently.Looking for 215/220p.

[jitters3] 18/5/2017 13:14

Bought first tranche today at 201.20 with a tight stop at 195

[sux_2bu] 17/5/2017 15:39

GARYCOOK17 May '17 - 09:56 - 4630 of 4632 0 0
It could be a long wait !!!



Perhaps, but it's getting closer.

[garycook] 17/5/2017 10:05

In fact it could be a very long wait.Go and post on the LLOY thread that LLOY are going back to 50p !!!

[garycook] 17/5/2017 09:56

It could be a long wait !!!

[sux_2bu] 17/5/2017 09:54

Considering a buy around 150p / 170p

[pjt105] 16/5/2017 21:48

Hyden - you're right the strike price isn't relevant. I think it's the voting rights attached to these financial instruments that this RNS is about.
The first instrument ISIN GB0007365546 is (was) traded on the Berlin Bourse hxxp://www.boerse-berlin.com/index.php/Shares?isin=GB0007365546
The equity swaps
Equity swap % of voting rights Delta 4.0214%
I googled ‘voting rights delta’
Under the FCA rules
'The number of voting rights must be calculated by reference to the full notional amount of shares (23,054,859) underlying the financial instrument except where the financial instrument provides exclusively for a cash settlement, in which case the number of voting rights must be calculated on a “delta-adjusted” basis, by multiplying the notional amount of underlying shares by the delta (4.0214%) of the financial instrument. For this purpose, the holder must aggregate and notify all financial instruments relating to the same underlying issuer'. (interesting this bit..) Long positions are not to be netted with short positions relating to the same underlying issuer.
My take is that CLLN are paying down their debt / financial instruments with Citi and Citi increasing their voting rights to over 5% as a result. Nothing to do with shorts - imo.

[hyden] 16/5/2017 19:51

No, I don't think we will pjt105. I see it as no different to a Contract for Difference and you don't see the strike price on these being declared. What puzzles me is that voting rights vest with Citi and therefore they must own the underlying so I am not sure what is going on. Have they bought the stock then hedged against further falls, for example?

[poacher45] 16/5/2017 19:03

Today with the share price at 204p plus the dividend of 12.95p means that shorting 4000000 shares has left the share price roughly the same. Perhaps now is the time to give the shorters a bloody nose.

[pjt105] 16/5/2017 17:01

Further to RCT's comment - I've not seen a form TR1 with equity swaps mentioned before. Here's the definition of an 'equity swap' - 'An equity swap is a financial derivative contract (a swap) where a set of future cash flows are agreed to be exchanged between two counterparties at set dates in the future. The two cash flows are usually referred to as "legs" of the swap; one of these "legs" is usually pegged to a floating rate such as LIBOR'.
We have the dates on the TR1, but not what the 'exercise price' is, I think this is an omission on Citi's part and we'll see an amendment. What do others think?

[edmundshaw] 16/5/2017 14:09

Well they hold 5.3584% interest and they crossed the 5% barrier. It would be jolly devious if that is a sell...

[rcturner2] 16/5/2017 14:06

hmmm, you might be right

it looks like an equity swap, basically a short term hedge against price falls?

anyone else who knows about these things?

[wallywoo] 16/5/2017 13:54

Is it??? if you look at their last RNS, they had voting rights for 20M shares this one 23M shares. Looks like a 3M share buy to me.

[rcturner2] 16/5/2017 13:50

Sale of 16m shares by Citi.

[thamestrader] 16/5/2017 13:32

agreed pjt. Alternatively just split the tick box that currently says "An acquisition or disposal of voting rights ...... x " into separate boxes for acquisition and disposal, only one of which can be ticked.

[pjt105] 16/5/2017 12:29

RNS - I can't work out whether that's an acquisition or disposal of shares by Citi. Why don't they have a TR1 for acquisition and a TR2 for disposal, would make these RNS a lot easier to work out!

[speedsgh] 16/5/2017 11:08

Some very interesting analysis of the current bearish chart by the excellent fingerxxd over on his thread...

[poacher45] 16/5/2017 09:52

From May 2nd to May 11th the shorters in order to get the price down have shorted another 0.92%. The equivalent of over 4000000 shares. I suppose in theory if they sold enough they could get the price down to zero. Vodaphone makes enormous losses and goes up what a strange market.

[jonwig] 15/5/2017 12:27

UtyINV - your argument sounds OK, but the flaw is the measurement of 'value'. Remember that a bear market can change perceptions of value with the good, the bad and the ugly getting similar treatment. A CEO won't look at short-term movements in the sp, but might look at progress over a business cycle.

You could say, in CLLN's case, that the market is waiting to pass verdict on the company's current strategy and traders are pulling both ways. The CEO won't change his strategy because one side seems to be winning.

[hyden] 15/5/2017 12:17

Thanks jonwig, that lends even more support to the argument that the pension fund deficit is less of an issue.

[utyinv] 15/5/2017 12:16

What is needed is a takeover! Shorters get burnt, management changed and business put back on track. BTW someone posted CEO's main responsibility is the business; they are responsible for Strategy and future policy to ensure the business is profitable and healthy. The ultimate responsibility of the CEO is the share price and shareholder value. Chief Operating Officer, and Operations Directors' main responsibilities are to concentrate on operating the business. Unless a Company is a Cooperative, a mutual or State run business the ultimate responsibility of the CEO is to deliver shareholder value!

[jonwig] 15/5/2017 12:10

I don't 'do' charts, but I'm sure a lot of traders do, and will be waiting for the share price to hit the lower downtrend channel - look at the two low points of 2016 and extrapolate. On that basis, the share price has a way further to go.

Maybe a proper chartist can advise?