Biffa Share Discussion Threads

[ul7raviolet] 15/6/2007 08:35

city,private equity buy out,like i said just rumours some are true and some are rumours.

[retroz3] 15/6/2007 08:32

Ultraviolet where are the rumours coming from?

[ul7raviolet] 15/6/2007 08:08

take over rumours,hold your hats boys.

[watwungyi] 15/6/2007 07:36

biff has 81 consented void altogether by the close of last year interim report. 12% of are leased to third party and i think income from there are booked under other operating income, which is about 0.7M, each year they used up 6 void. so they still got well enough voids for next ten years, excluding further procurement. As they are more and more costly to prepare, new entrants will find it uneconomical to do this. The bigger players, veolia, cory, sita and biff controlled almost every landfill sites and this scarcity of landfill sites pose as barriers of entry for potential competitors. the entire business hasn't so far been a great investment with a return of equity of around 4-5%. that i blame to overcapacity and once it becomes more and more consolidated margin should increase.
with regard to acquisitions, i think any acquisition in collection division is a value-destroying deal. but having bigger and bigger on landfill sites are something we might welcome. biff said next 7 to 10 years, they expect landfill continue to play important part in waste management.

[colonel rigger] 14/6/2007 21:48

Depend's how much capacity is left in each landfill site as the depreciation is on per ton left in capacity & as the landfill site gets nearer to capacity there is less tonnage to depreciate the landfill site over. Also new EU rules mean each new cell of a landfill site costs more in engineering to prepare for waste.

[watwungyi] 14/6/2007 17:38

the band,

how're you doing? i also added at 284.75, still not break even since recent heavy losses. just saw the guys purchased and gave some assurance. glad that your patience was paid off. i think this share has at least 20% disocout on 'asset valuation'. first they have considerable amount of landfill sites, which are now more diffiult and more costly to obtain. they've got real estate in more than 20 locations and you know what? these landfill sites are valued at £109M after depreciation. I think it's worth more than that. if a competitor wanted to acquire the same amount of landfill sites now, they will have to pay more than that. so although their ppe(property, plant and equipment) is stated at £340, in my opinion they are worth around £550M. you need to get this figuer more accurate. having said that net asset value (excluding goodwill i.e., i put goodwill zero) is around £600M. right? then i ask if i am going to buy this company, how much am i prepared to pay? veolia paid cleanaway for £585M, with a good will of around £350, that's roughly more than twice as much its nav. so if a competitor wanted to buy biff, it needs to pay at least £1200M. biff is valued at £1068M when the share price is 294. so it has at least 20% to go on 'asset valuation ground'. but on the earning ground, i don't think it's worth as it is now with free cash flow of around £50M a year, assuming no growth, biff's value is around £500M, the reason asset value is higher than earning value is overcapacity. so just a slight health warning. but i think this is well positioned to increase its cash flow. building customer relationship has costs. we can see that as capital expenditure.
more later.

best wishes

watwungyi

[theband] 14/6/2007 13:56

I'm with Bob, Martin, and Tim. You know it makes sense.Glad to be back in at this level, never thought I'd get the opportunity.

[bashor] 14/6/2007 13:04

Well the Directors have been snapping them up cheap, see RNS

[ul7raviolet] 14/6/2007 11:49

looks to be a gap to £3.20 level,very cheap at current levels.

[holts] 14/6/2007 10:10

was not expecting to be able to buy at 2.82, very odd reaction to results, boring, yes, but someone will buy the copmany eventually.

[seagreen] 14/6/2007 09:01

£3.20p here we come again........tres amusant.........the shorters have to close

[its the oxman] 14/6/2007 08:45

BOUNCING NICELY NOW 295P - be nice to be back and hold over 300p

[its the oxman] 13/6/2007 16:17

modest growth and arguably uninspiring results - that said forecasts were met and the price is considerably lower now - anyway just bought a modest holding under 285p - hope to get the div and see close to a 20% return by year end - any bid approach would simply be the icing on the cake - guess it always remains a possibility and then who knows what price we might see.

[seagreen] 13/6/2007 15:27

be interetsing market gone blue and this is undervalued by between 20p to a £1.20p mind your backs please .....orderly queue ....buy early to avoid disapointment

[seagreen] 13/6/2007 14:36

the best shorters gag I always thought was LM dot com the world and all its filth were shorting thinking that it was free money and then biff bop a take over.........right up the chuff......oh dear oh dear.........

funny how history repeats itself.......8-)

[seagreen] 13/6/2007 14:34

They can run but they cant hide we shall tackle them on the beaches

[seagreen] 13/6/2007 14:31

shorters about to take it up the jaksi captain mainwaring.........

[praipus] 13/6/2007 13:56

Yeah the chinese withdrawing from US bonds could be looking for utility type environment friendly or neutral investments BIFFA would look good in Blackstone's portfolio.

[clusium] 13/6/2007 10:23

The FT has positive comment, ending with "...the shares should bounce back quickly". Get a copy.

[mitzis] 13/6/2007 09:08

A hold says the Indie..

[seagreen] 13/6/2007 09:08

Interesting battle with the traders by teh look sof it but this could end up blue by the end of the day.....the M&A rumour still seems to be out there but maybe thats all it is

[watwungyi] 13/6/2007 08:52

smiler,

the new legislation said waste must be treated and sorted before sending to landfill site. being an integrated large company, biffa has required technology to respond to that and that would benefit them. but smaller player, who only does collection business and lack infrastructure for treating and sorting, would have to turn to biff for such service, in the worst case they migth start losing their customers. colleciton business has no barriers to entry, you just need a truck and a licence to start a business. but treating and landfill have barriers of entries in terms of capitala intensiveness as well as possessing large landfill sites. biff has around 15 to 20% of uk landfill sites. so those only collecting waste will either be forced out of business or increase their capital to stay in their business. biff has good management and i think they are right not to let their customers go elsewhere, and margin can be restored and enhanced in a few years time. so in the long run, holding this share will surely pay off.

[rgcol1] 12/6/2007 20:58

29/6/2007 31/7/2007

[broshm] 12/6/2007 18:35

Can anyone give any sound reason why this share price dropped 9% ?
Study the buy/sells ,see the news ,this didnot happen before computer shar trading ,,or did it ?.
Any one Know when div is credited and due to be paid ,the% div is not outstandingly high ?