Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[superg1] 14/11/2016 11:48

The KLF

I can't help but think of Mu Mu land when you post.

Thanks for the Derby bit I missed that. Covertry was definitely Jag/Landrover

[superg1] 14/11/2016 11:24

Re funds

If they were interested then I'd expect their first port of call to be the loose shares so I'll be watching for the 'unknown' trades too on the mid price.

Thinking on that the 65k late report today was on Friday after hours and at the mid price. Not a lot but still a mid price that we can't get at buy or sell.

[the prophet] 14/11/2016 11:21

yes, WNTS start moving and it could turn very interesting

[superg1] 14/11/2016 11:12

Mr Dexy

I'm keeping a close eye on WNTS to see if they move off the offer, finger on trigger etc.

[superg1] 14/11/2016 11:10

AAC intial costs £1.4 mill.

So thinking on the discounting, if available then over £1 mill is likely via that route.

So they had £3.4 mill including the placing, £1.4 mill for AAC and possibly discounting that opens up over £1 mill.

That explains why they seem confident about cash and the circs of each business.

I'm now half wondering what I was bleating on about in the first place but I admit I had not fully rveiewed discount invoicing which has become very popular with businesses. Always good to be cautious though

All figures ignore any potential further grants via innovate and others.

[superg1] 14/11/2016 10:54

Just looking at figures.

July results.

As at 31 March 2016, the Group had bank balances totalling GBP1.6m with GBP0.7 million of headroom on its invoice discounting facilities.

They say forecast show they have enough cash to operate/pay bills etc for the coming 12 months.

Placing news £1.1 mill for the acquisition.

Heads of terms have been agreed and the balance of the consideration is anticipated to be met by the Company's committed debt facilities. Remaining proceeds from the placing will be used for working capital purposes for the enlarged group.

So that amounts to £3.4 mill plus possibly a further £1+ mill available via AAC discounting facility.

2D tech side of it sounds likes it's probably making money now but I'll look deeper. I see no reason why they would spend cash doubling up on production there when in theory they had 25 kg capabilty pa already which in research sample terms is £10 million revenue.

Carbide about break even, AAC profit and revnue on the way up. 2D tech low cost.

Heat sink side needs some further digging due to that acquisition but we already know differing revenues on the acquired company was that had already lost about 50% of it's business pre acquisition.

A line in news about £1.4 mill of enquiries on the heat sink side. It's hard to call due to part years and recent the acquisition etc.

[mr dexy] 14/11/2016 10:41

TP,

Just joshing.. I could see what you were doing :)

Be interesting to see if there is any pick up in volume following the presentation this week.

Regards


Mr D

[the prophet] 14/11/2016 10:36

Yes, i didn't mean to imply 2DTech was first listed for any reason other than alphabetical, but just to flag it up as maybe not everyone is aware that 2DTech is VRS's graphene subsidiary.

[mr dexy] 14/11/2016 10:30

( Although.. the list is alphabetical )

Cheers for the links TP.

Seems as if there is still plenty of stock around... atm

Regards


Mr D

[the prophet] 14/11/2016 10:05

worth checking out this web-site:

eg, NGI is working towards international standards for graphene



and partnerships


first listed is VRS's 2DTech subsidary

[the prophet] 14/11/2016 09:49

SG
Yes, it was me that asked if factoring was an expensive form of financing, answer was no, money is cheap right now.

Re the sample that was passed around of graphene, it was more like 0.5g rather than 1g, just for info.

[superg1] 14/11/2016 09:43

Just thinking on AAC and invoice discounting. I think it was said (having asked) that AAC hadn't used that.

Last financial report there £42.7 mill and the guy saying he thinks £5-£5.5 mill year due to growth and orders already being processed.

They guy with me (may have been you TP) asked if that was expensive to do re discount invoicing and the answer was with rates so low it's cheap.

I working on 3 month receivables lags and I note some discounting companies talk of a 90 day period re settling so 3 months seems fine to me as an example.

Here is a quick example from a company that does it. I note another say they'll pay 90% immediately when the invoice is raised and then will give the rest minus the fee and interest when it's paid.

'Our pricing is made up of two core components - a service fee and discount charge. For an invoice discounting facility between £250k and £2m, we typically charge a service fee of between 0.2% and 1% and a discount charge of 2.5% and 3.5% over libor. This includes access to our online market-leading platform, IDealTM*.'

So it does seem to be a very reasonable way to use cash as costs are low.

So on the AAC side potentially £1 to £1.25 mill available via that route. They mentioned something like £600-£700k of headroom on existing facailties pre AAC I believe.

[superg1] 14/11/2016 09:23

Shavian

The video was good advert for graphene and advanced materials in general and the various claimed by others looking at the Haydale enhanced products.

My only iusewas the guy calling it 'our graphene', when in fact Haydale don't produce graphene, they are effectively a graohene broker as I understand it. EG some sales they make could well be VRS GNPS as in the Haydale/VRS news

[superg1] 14/11/2016 08:27

WNTS still the lead bid and offer.

[shavian] 13/11/2016 17:46

OK, thanks SG. Let's have another go:

www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/companies/stocktube/6182/advanced-nanomaterials-will-drive-haydale-graphene-industries-plc-forward-says-boss-6182.html

There we are. You'll have to cut and paste it yourselves, as I'm not about to enrich ADVFN any further,mhaving been L2 for years and not using it very much for the purpose intended.

[theklf] 13/11/2016 14:38

re Rolls Royce I thought they dropped a heavy hint on that at the Presentation?

Just as with the 'OEM based in Coventry' i.e. Jaguar they alluded at one point to a 'Derby-based' company which is I think where Rolls Royce are based?

I would imagine they have other routes into high level Rolls Royce contacts because they seem to be on good terms with Renishaw whose main man was ex assistant chief designer at RR.

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/10431760/David-McMurtry-one-of-Britains-master-craftsmen.html

[superg1] 13/11/2016 14:12

Shavian

ADVFN used to put in a block to stop on subscribers posting links. EG Http would become xx but the way around it was to put HTTP as capitals.

I'm guessing they have done something further to block it. Just paste the www. part on and then folk can cut and paste it into the header.

It's all about trying to squeeze a fiver per month out of folk to turn blue. They like the non subscribers too as that allows them to record 100's of 1000's of false IDs to impress the advertisers with how many 'registered users' they have. In other words a con.

[serratia] 13/11/2016 10:30

Haydale said it was a cost issue, cheaper to start there.

[shavian] 13/11/2016 09:04

Going slightly OT if you will forgive me. I'm intrigued as to why both Haydale and Perpetuus should both set up in sleepy hollow Ammanford. I don't think they are in association, because Haydale ex-director Ian Walters sold his shares soon after their float and subsequently joined Perpetuus.

[...]

Not a very flattering (old) assessment from iii.

Edit: the link I pasted just then from iii keeps cancelling itself. See the [...] symbol. Any ideas why?

Anyway, here's a more recent and positive view on Haydale from Procative Investors. Watch the video.

[...]

Oops it's done it again. Sorry!

[superg1] 13/11/2016 06:56

Re that potential OEM I have no idea who it is but got down to 2 potentials with NGI of either Rolls Royce or Dyson. That's if the NGI listed whoever they were working with as a partner.

The Royce Institute set up at a cost of $235 mill and is based at the UOM. They clearly have a strong interest in graphene.



Then there is the composites hub they have developed in Bristol.

'This advanced manufacturing facility will be at the forefront of developing the next generation of fan blades and fan cases, made of carbon-fibre composite materials, for Rolls-Royce’s future aero-engines.'

3rd November there was a invite which I found which said....

Are you interested in technology and how it relates to everyday problems or challenges? Do you want to handle a new technology that’s going to be everywhere in the future?
Come along to this talk by Dr Joe Palmer from Rolls-Royce to find about Graphene – an amazing new technology which is changing how we think about things forever!

Either way RR seem very interested in the sector and their staff suggesting graphene is going to be everywhere.

[superg1] 13/11/2016 06:36

Worth a read about the composites industry in general.

I'm picking up on various bits from the composites twitter link in the header. Just looking at composites in general it seems the market has mastered ways to reduce the costs of carbon fibre and as we know GNPs enhance the resin that goes into carbon fibre.

I was surprised by some of the things mentioned that are switching to composites.

EG

Ford 'the 2016 SuperDuty pickup features an all-composite design without metallic reinforcement.'

Wind turbine blades.

Army field units that used to be metal.

Shipping containers

[the prophet] 12/11/2016 23:54

red thumb guy is working over-time, give us a thumbs up mate!

[superg1] 12/11/2016 16:39

TP

I'm not going to moan about that too much I thought 12-13p was going to be the price I'd have to pay as it seemed to be bottoming out. As it stands it was a 20% drop for about 10% dilution so as lurking PIs the maths made it a good deal overall for buyers and no doubt a niggle for VRS. At least it gave VRS a view of what Mr Market is like.

It's not even back at the 12-13p range the company is much further on and the supply that created the circumstances if it's BR and Allianz selling out is or can't be far off done.

I doubt there are others as they sit nicely in notification areas some on the 1% trigger and others not too far above 5% which means either way local or offshore they have to report.

[the prophet] 12/11/2016 14:09

Yes, isn't it amazing how a share price mysteriously falls and it turns out the fall happens at the same time that a company is doing the rounds for a placing. Must be pure co-incidence as all the participants are made insiders. And no doubt the FCA scrupulously monitors this sort of activity-NOT.When I say distressed seller, I've also seen cases in small caps where institutions just sell down at any price, they just keep going till they hit a level where someone will lift them. That can take a long time. They are not distressed sellers as such, as they have no desperate need for the cash, but they also have no regard as to what happens to the share price as they want out at any price.My experience is that institutions on board can be a blessing and a curse.