Woodford Patient Capital Share Discussion Threads

[sweet karolina2] 12/8/2019 08:48

buywell,

I have previously posted my thoughts on another fund providing a lifeboat for WEIF and WIFF, but not at silly prices - just need to show trapped holders of WEIF got access to what is left of their cash back before Christmas.

None of that helps WPCT as part of that will be kitchen sinking WEIF unlisteds which can't be sold and then quietly disposing of them when they are no longer a significant part of a bigger fund.

The key issue for WPCT is getting out of Woody's funding commitments so the debt can be paid down on schedule. The only way to do that is to ditch Woody. However that will come at a cost as new manager will want to kitchen sink unlisteds and by getting out of funding commitments will either cause those who had funding commitments to go bust or raise at peanuts.

It is damned if you do and damned if you don't, as far as sacking Woody is concerned. Overall it is better to be damned by sacking Woody than be doubly damned for not sacking Woody.

[buywell3] 12/8/2019 07:55

My 'white knight' comments still stand

Reason being as stated before but not appreciated by you lesser mortals

woodford funds fail = massive loss of trust in THE ENTIRE FUND MANAGEMENT INDUSTRY

Which is an extremely lucrative gravy train

A BIG White Knight could step in and sort this mess that the press are turning into a circus --- thus making many other funds also start to look like clowns --- and stop the rot before it spreads to the next fund manager in trouble.


With Global Downturn upon us --- there will be others as of NOW --- but some are for the present time managing to keep their heads down below the parapet as woodford attracts the press sniper fire.

[spectoacc] 12/8/2019 07:32

Exactly those things are coming @sk2 - and the WEIF selling prices of course.

I've yet to see a satisfactory answer to "What happens to the funding commitments if WPCT changes manager". My understanding is that they're on WIM? But that IFF/WEIF ruled out as taking them on, since the likes of PP not in IFF's remit, and being sold out of WEIF.

[sweet karolina2] 12/8/2019 07:17

I find articles like that completely pointless, all it is doing is describing the share price graph. Why bother? just look at the graph, no share goes up or down in a straight line. WPCT may well trade in the 40-50p range for a few weeks until the next bit of stunningly bad news comes out, like one of the big unicorns needing funding which Woody can't provide and either getting it at peanuts to survive diluting Woody to oblivion, or not getting it at all and going bust.

[jonwig] 12/8/2019 07:03

Questor on WPCT ... said HOLD on 6 June at 66.1p. Hoping for private equity interest. No mention since, I think.

[spectoacc] 12/8/2019 07:02

I keep posting on Citywire that WPCT has a "Not Asset Value" but they don't seem to get it :)

You simply can't talk discounts when the NAV is effectively false.

[jonwig] 12/8/2019 06:51

There are clearly still some who have hope. This was Citywire, Friday;

Woodford Patient Capital (WPCT) has now topped the table of biggest investment trust fallers for two weeks in a row, but the shares are rallying today, having briefly traded below 40p for the first time.

Have the shares finally found their bottom, at least until there is further news? It’s taken a long time for them to get there, with the stock finding little support in the two months since Woodford Equity Income was suspended, falling 48% to yesterday’s close at 40.9p.

The 40p mark seems to be offering some resistance for now, however. After briefly dipping below that level in the first hour of trading this morning, the shares have since steadily gained ground throughout the day, up 9.7% at 44.7p at the time of writing.

[ltcm1] 11/8/2019 22:28

Are Questor still holding WPCT???

I recall they said 'buy' when it was up in the 80's and also issued a 'hold' advice note when it was in the 70's.

Amazing the spell Woodford put so many under. Must admit I fell for it too, didn't invest but did think it still 'had something' after Weif got gated.

He had recently brought Autolus to market so it did seem a bit of the old Woodford magic still shone here. However so much has changed in two months, surely buywell and careful have to be joking yes???

[topvest] 11/8/2019 18:11

Agreed. The Mail on Sunday appears to have turned from being a strong Woody supporter (for years) to trying to take credit for knocking the man as hard as they can. Maybe they should apologise to their readers instead.

[topvest] 11/8/2019 17:30

Careful - your thesis is flawed in my view. Contrarian investment is all well and good, but you need to be investing in quality assets.
WPCT is full of speculative loss making businesses valued based on what the last fool paid for his investment (often largely Woodford). I wouldn’t touch this at any price.

[jonwig] 11/8/2019 16:30

@ ak47... - a damning article, again, from Jeff P! having tried to doorstep Woody, he's after the FCA's Bailey, now. There's nothing like a lover spurned.

Bailey may escape official censure, but I sense his ambition to be BoE guv won't be realised.

[careful] 11/8/2019 16:29

After last Fridays 8% rise, next week could be interesting.
A torrent of negative comment, followed by even more bordering on hysteria, has driven this down.

WPCT is the contrarians contrarian investment.
The advice 'no-one ever made money by following the herd',was never more relevant.

[dr biotech] 11/8/2019 15:53

Every now and again Buywell posts something that shows he is absolutely clueless.

Written defamation is libel, not slander. Highest libel payment in the UK is about 1m. Haven’t seen anything libellous printed yet either.

The thought that anyone would agree to repay investors losses is just hilarious. Yes, I feel sorry for those whose trusted him or feel misled, but that it.

I’m down on a few of my holdings, who here is going to buy them back off me at the price I paid? Please, I’ll say on here what a nice person you are 😂🤣🤣



buywell311 Aug '19 - 14:04 - 9657 of 9660
0 0 1
IF a white Knight came along and bought this and perhaps another woodford fund or his entire holdings/business

And the price was OK in that investors managed to more or less get their money back over an agreed period = say up to 2 years.

I wonder if woodford could sue many of these newspapers for slander ?

Say 10m per paper.

They do so like to keep giving the guy such a right kicking on a daily basis

buywell always likes the underdog (spot) … so I hope he lucks out.

[kooba] 11/8/2019 14:37

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/08/11/troubled-fund-manager-neil-woodford-could-sell-oxford-nanopore/

[buywell3] 11/8/2019 14:04

IF a white Knight came along and bought this and perhaps another woodford fund or his entire holdings/business

And the price was OK in that investors managed to more or less get their money back over an agreed period = say up to 2 years.

I wonder if woodford could sue many of these newspapers for slander ?

Say 10m per paper.

They do so like to keep giving the guy such a right kicking on a daily basis

buywell always likes the underdog (spot) … so I hope he lucks out.

[jonwig] 11/8/2019 12:31

@ Spikey - He was like a kid in a sweet shop, couldn't invest his cash quickly enough! And in no time he was hinting at another equity raise. Fortunately some folks put a damper on that and he went for debt gearing instead.

No penalties if he'd sat on cash, but he couldn't wait.

[spikeyj] 11/8/2019 11:16

? what would have been the reasons why woodford
felt that he needed to invest all that initial
wpct cash so very quickly after the float? - was
there some particular penalty that would have
applied if he had gone about things more slowly?

[ltcm1] 11/8/2019 10:23

Apparently Gotham City are publishing a note on Burford too today, says the Sunday Times.

With WPCT, I wonder if they did model the likely future cash requirements of their stocks properly??? You don't get much for £1 billion these days, yet Woodford had over 50 companies in his WPCT stable.

I thought the sale of Purp to Weif was at a very funky price at the time, which the market subsequently proved. Without that sale the cash crisis in WPCT would have emerged far earlier, looking back he became short of cash early on, you could see it in sudden sales of AJ Bell and Autolus right after their flotations.

It does seem there was a fundamental and fatal flaw in starting out with so many ideas in the stable.

[jonwig] 11/8/2019 09:14

@ ltcm1 - the 2017 accounts are at Companies House.

(£m):
Turnover ....... 2
Gross Profit ....2
Admin ..........(6)
Op profit ..... (4)

2018 profits aren't filed on the pageI visited.

[jonwig] 11/8/2019 06:13

The Times:

Crowdfunding site Seedrs has suspended its shares from trading on a secondary market used to buy and sell stock in private companies while it attempts to complete a financing deal.

In a message to shareholders, Seedrs said it was at “advanced stages in a fundraising discussion” and was unable to trade while the transaction was pending.

Seedrs, which counts the troubled stockpicker Neil Woodford as one of its largest shareholders, needs a cash injection to ease concerns over widening losses and the amount of cash it burns through. It made an operating loss of £4.3m last year, compared with a loss of £3.9m in 2017, on revenues of £3.2m.



It seems to have its own secondary market.

[sweet karolina2] 10/8/2019 23:42

If the rumour is true and Woody has sold all his KIE off market, no doubt at a discount to what the market price was before Fri, then even the worst BBM on here or the LSE asylum could have done better.