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[serratia] 08/1/2020 13:11

As Nanoxplore has been mentioned I thought I'd have another look.

In 2017 they bought CEDO an injection moulding company then in 2018 they bought Sigma. In 2017 they had sales of $2.89m and lost $2.39m. In 2018 they had sales of $7.86m and lost $6.44m. In 2019 they had sales of $69.5m and lost $10.8m. The sales increase came from Sigma who had an annual sales rate of $72m. Gross profit was low at 15%.
Their strategy seems to be to buy down stream companies in which they plan to integrate their Graphene like material ( Not yet validated ). In April 2019 they sold Rada for a loss. A company they had bought to try to get into footwear. At that time they said they had 50 tpa Graphene capacity with a major expansion coming in 2020.
In June 2019 they said they had Graphene in customer trials. Last year Nazarpour the CEO was paid $700k.
On Sept 9th last year a major shareholder - Mason graphite sold all their shares, 18% of the company. In Q4 last year the Graphene story is coming to a critical point, customer trials on going and an expansion to 4000 tpa in Q1 2020 with 10000 tpa to follow.
So far there's no indications in their results that they've sold any Graphene only ' in trials ' but they must be confident to have built the new plant and will need to fill it Q1/2 2020. probably a good time for management to buy shares but no on Sept 19th 2019 the CEO sold $3.9m of shares. What was he thinking ?

[schmally] 08/1/2020 13:08

AD631, Please feel free post balanced and reasonable points for discussion highlighting a bear case. However, posting lies that you have seen screenshots of price sensitive information shared on a private forum, is, as I'm sure you'll agree just a little naughty.

I've seen all the screenshots and there is not one price sensitive comment anywhere. The fact that the only comment Loggy has quoted was about him being a failed businessman somewhat sums up how bland everything else was.

[loglorry1] 08/1/2020 13:03

"I don't believe BIGT will ever invest the full 15%"

Eh! On the one hand you argue that the current valuation of VRS is way too low given it's incredible potential and that the Chinese are desperate for the ability to produce Graphene the way VRS can and then on the other hand you say won't pay up or are demanding onerous terms that Neill won't agree to.

Which is it?

Surely you can't be arguing that VRS are have now gone all shy and have decided not to do a deal with the Chinese - they've been banging on about it for two years.

[ad631] 08/1/2020 12:55

schmally: I have now come to terms with being a 'blatant liar' - it is reinforced on re-reading my VRS posts. Thank you for making me aware of this - I will try harder to be more pro VRS :)

[squire007] 08/1/2020 12:51

Who cant understand why the ONLY verified graphene producer of set world standards be that British American Chinese etc and in volume where and when required has a miserly value of 150 million is fruit bat .. :-)

[schmally] 08/1/2020 12:49

Log, I don't believe BIGT will ever invest the full 15% (the reasons have been covered previously as you know). I'm also prepared to accept that if the terms of any proposed investment are not firmly in favour of VRS and shareholders that it may not conclude. As you should be aware BIGT are only one of a number of interested Chinese parties.

BIGT is not the be all and end all. It's simply a preference of VRS as things stand due to the strategic nature of the proposal. I'd have been massively concerned and disappointed if Neill and the team had succumbed to their ego's being massaged and coaxed into settling for a poor deal without sufficient protection, rather than protect shareholder and UK interests as they are currently doing.

I'd rather no deal than a compromised deal and I'd still be supremely confident about the future for VRS and my holding.

[mavfav] 08/1/2020 12:42

Nurse will be around soon to give you your medication But in all seriousness you should take a step back and ask why you seem isolated on here. Ok there are others with similar viewpoints (but potentially the same person)I take a balanced viewpoint and like to see both sides of the coin. If only one side is presented it's not good but be valid, be able to demonstrate your thinking and be able to see the future.If you only look in the past you will never move forwards. If you only do what others do you will never innovateI have almost come to the conclusion that your posts are an expression of fear and you may actually be involved in a company that is competing with VRS hence you are scared that you will never succeed unless you shoot at the leaders I know nooothing

[loglorry1] 08/1/2020 12:42

"So sue him."

Why bother? Let's see if he's decent enough to issue a retraction or refute that it was him. I don't think we have proof that it was him that even posted the comments. Another reason why CEOs shouldn't post on private discord groups as it leaves themselves open to a verification problem.

[turbocharge] 08/1/2020 12:40

"As he approached the gaunt figure of Bog Glory bent over the chair peering at the computer screen, a curious stench wafted into his nostrils. Taking a few steps closer, the disgusting odour became unbearable, and he was, for some strange reason, keenly reminded of traits that might belong to some seedy character of the underworld. He sensed a noxious and unpleasant taste in the thick air, and felt he was in the presence of pure greed and unbridled dishonesty.

Quickly, he turned away realising the folly and danger of engaging or associating with this dark and depressing figure. In an instant, his mind was made up never again to have any dealings or communication with this pathetic and dangerous individual.

Some days later, sipping a comforting brew of his favourite coffee, his mind wandered and turned to muse over his disturbing encounter with Bog Glory. It occurred to him that perhaps he might have been too hasty in condemning the poor fellow. Despite the sultry heat of the oppressive afternoon, he made his way to the shanty area where Bog Glory occupied a tiny office. He was hoping, although deep inside he knew it was a vain hope, that the stench emanating from the fellow might have eased.

As soon as he stepped out of his car onto the cobbled pavement, he realised that the same familiar stench was still there, even more pungent than before. The disgusting odour hung heavily on the air, almost like a welcome signal to signpost the street where Bog lived. He noticed what sounded like voices breaking the oppressive stillness of the air. With a heavy heart, he started to walk in the direction where Bog’s office was located.

He had only walked a short distance when it became apparent that the noise was coming from a commotion between a group of perhaps six or seven people who seemed to be having some kind of heated argument. He noticed that the figure wearing a dirty and crumpled trench coat was that of Bog Glory. He stood there for some time and listened to their animated conversation, trying to make sense of some of the arguments put forward by Bog to support his stance.

The longer he stood there and the more he heard, it became utterly apparent that Bog’s arguments were based on untruths and carefully crafted and reasonable sounding questions designed to cast doubt into the minds of his unsuspecting victims. He felt nothing but sympathy for these people who were wasting their valuable time engaging with this dangerous character. There was no doubt, the clarity of this observation surfaced in his mind like an immutable mountain, the fellow Bog was a scoundrel, a man who would never desist from using any means at his disposal to swindle his fellow man. Perhaps there have to be some villains in this world, he wondered as he walked away from the stench and back towards his car....”

[loglorry1] 08/1/2020 12:40

Good post @brassneck2 but we could say the same thing about many other companies with new materials which could be game changers but have valuations much much lower.

If this is about a startup with a process for producing graphene that *may* become commercial then why give it the £170m+ valuation?

Further if there is all the nascent potential why does Neill regularly sell shares and never buy any at recent levels? Why did he sell directly after releasing an RNS which suggested BIGT were about to invest cash in VRS for up to 15% of their ordinary shares? Today we find out that the deal is far from complete and they are still arguing over things like valuation, IP protection etc. in fact pretty much all the main points and this months after the RNS and share sales.

[bgt1] 08/1/2020 12:31

Very funny .... you're correct Tim is "in my opinion" a useless "businessman" unless he can provide evidence otherwise? What does he run, Thinking-machine Ltd. Who does the thinking? His puppet masters I do believe.Hardly an early retirement multi national is it.

[brassneck2] 08/1/2020 12:24

Log, from the RNS’s (which are obviously the only way to communicate) the only collaboration that hasn’t progressed was Axia Materials which was down to their funding, not the VRS Graphene, so the VRS statement holds true.

The reason there has been little commercialisation of Graphene by anyone is because it’s still a fledgling industry. It’s nothing to do with price. Major businesses will innovate such as AECOM irrespective of price. Once they know if it works or not price comes in to play. That’s why F1 teams lead innovation which is then picked up by the likes of Mercedes in the top end consumer brands before eventually getting to Skoda.

As this happens I’m sure the price will fall but it seems to me it’s not just about providing the Graphene but embedding in the supply chain so it’s more difficult to substitute. That’s where the value lies.

It takes longer but will be more successful in the long term

[ad631] 08/1/2020 12:23

schmally: 'Ad361, Your post simply reinforces that you are a blatant liar' - again which part? Simple question.

[loglorry1] 08/1/2020 12:23

I don't think anyone in the world or his dog cares whether anyone called you a failed businessman or not Log.

Well you obviously do. I agree though it is irellevant.

When do you think the cash injection for up to 15% of VRS shares from BIGT will arrive? It seems from that discord chat that they can't agree on basic terms. That seems completely at odds with what we were told before "dotting it i's crossing t's" type language and going out to sign a deal in September?

Was Neill lying then as well?

[squire007] 08/1/2020 12:23

Who is Log, another desperate attention seeker, jeez - is he a shareholder ????.. lol.No ... oh failed again. Grow up and fekk off

[66sequoia] 08/1/2020 12:18

Bye then ?

[loglorry1] 08/1/2020 12:16

@Club Neill is a liar* as evidenced by the discord post he made about me. He has absolutely no evidence to support this libelous claim.


*I'm happy to retract this statement if Neill can confirm that it wasn't him on this discord group. If he doesn't do that then quite incredibly we can probably assume it was really him.

[ad631] 08/1/2020 12:02

schmally: 'Ad361, Your post simply reinforces that you are a blatant liar' - again which part?

[schmally] 08/1/2020 11:59

Rathean,

There is no appeal, so no need for you to stay.