Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[1teepee] 19/4/2019 11:18

I think it's negotiation time. They probably want a better price and did a walk away. Thinking nr will be sweating. He is cool as a cucumber and happy to wait for them to sign. IMO

[woodpeckers] 19/4/2019 11:17

Further to my posts yesterday, it seems WFOE is the sensible way forward...

dia.org/wiki/Wholly_Foreign-Owned_Enterprise

[luckykids] 19/4/2019 11:16

I am going to take a fairly simplistic view on the thought of a Chinese entity taking a 15% stake in VRS. Not sure whether people will agree, or my math be correct.

Firstly Neill has said on Twitter it won't affect US companies going forward, so no risk there.

So lets take a base case price. £200m market cap and they invest £30m (full 15%) in VRS. I would actually expect a premium for an investment of this kind, normally above the current market price, but it doesn't normally turn out how I expect.

The £30m would stop us having to come back for an equity fund raise (massive plus always overhanging non profit making cos) it would probably not only allow them to pursue their expansion in China (as long as £30m doesn't come with restrictions on where it can be used, unlikely) but also in most of their other geographical areas as well from a position of strength.

It cannot be underestimated the bargaining power when negotiating in other countries, not only the financial strength but the backing of a Chinese behemoth. It will probably save the company % points on what they have to give away. That alone saving millions. And prompting others to get a move on.

We have long looked at the USA companies that launch with massive fire power from large equity raises or big backers, enabling them to make massive land grabs and become giants in their areas. I am sure many of us thought google was massively over priced on its launch but looking back it wasn't. Many times we see British companies trying to grow organically, or struggling with manipulated diluted fund raises time and again, and saying in the US our share price would be higher.
But higher share prices only comes with higher risk for the shareholders in the USA which we normally don't like. Who among us would have paid the high price and high risk on the launch of Google.

So £30m would propel us far out in front of our peers in possibly one of the largest areas of opportunity, most of us have ever seen. This doesn't come without risk. We have always waited for the demand before investing, and this goes against the company culture so far, but if the risk is worth it why not? This is where Neill's interests are aligned with ours on what to do for the long term of the company.

The wholly owned susbsid route will allow us to dictate the terms of any other joint ventures we set up in China, as I would presume that is how they would be done, with the subsid rather than with VRS. (And again we have the money behind us already when negotiating these as well) And in the future you could partially float your wholly owned sub if you wanted to expand even quicker or repatriate some of the money

Whereas in a joint venture subsid(sorry this gets confusing, not sure what other term to use) we would have to take into account our partners views before we could set up other joint ventures in China.

You could also say that if more than 30% of your earnings come from China (and I think it could be more like 50%) letting China take a stake in us will not be dilutive anyway. As you would have had to give away more than 15% (30%/2) of your earnings to your Chinese partner anyway.

So I am sure the VRS team have mulled this over for a while, and if they go for it I am behind them, even if the placing terms are not as favourable as some would hope. I am sure even if the Chinese paid £2 a share today some would moan.

So if you want adventure, you want bigger risk, and of course massive massive rewards off the back of it.

Lets be 'aving it.

[alchemy] 19/4/2019 10:53

How do you know that?

[tim3416] 19/4/2019 09:40

..As no further announcements have been made does that suggest things didn't work out as planned?...


No it doesn’t Dave mac as you well know, you naughty de ramper you...;-)

[alchemy] 19/4/2019 09:24

Its application. Apple is destroying grammar,

[lovat scout] 19/4/2019 08:52

Laginaneil - VRSRF:US. I think this is a share id reference code in USD for any US investors and there is also 9RV:GR in EUR. It’s not another listing. Overseas investors may need a trade reporting and pricing reference point so I don’t think there’s anything interesting to conclude. This time next year Rodney however......!

AIMHO etc

[shavian] 19/4/2019 08:40

Professor Lord Sterne on BBC Radio4 Today prog with Nick Robinson just now, putting the Extinction Rebellion demands into a more sensible perspective. Going carbon-neutral by 2050 is not only do-able but essential; trying to do it by 2025 belongs in LaLa Land. Stern holds out a vision of a wonderful future through technology if we all as individuals get serious about it NOW.

So what are we, the wonderful VRSfamily doing about it individually? I’ve gone halfway towards an electric car with a plug-in hybrid as I could not yet afford a Tesla (c’mon VRS!) and I’m meeting a guy today about installing an air source heat pump with inputs from both thermal solar plus solar PV for the electrics.

How do the rest of us feel about using our good fortune and profits from VRS to help save the planet? Let’s have your good ideas while we wait for the next episode in the VRS saga on Tuesday.

[dgduncan] 19/4/2019 08:04

From Zina Jaharri Cinker's meeting last week in DC :

Than you Robert Murray the Legislative Director and Tara McGee at the Office of Sen.Wicker for accompanying us and setting up the meeting with the department of commerce.
We are moving things for graphene and creating US competitiveness.
Big news coming...Stay tuned

There will be some significant announcements at the American Graphene Summit May 21-22

[squire007] 19/4/2019 07:00

Fest, can we have a week of 'dummy' buys rather than sells .....;-)
Just a thought, lol ............. it may work.

[1teepee] 19/4/2019 06:22

When you want to jump high, you prepare yourself with a solid base, then lift off

[matheus7777] 18/4/2019 23:44

Disagree. Smashing start on Monday, only tempered by NR taking a well deserved bonus in order to move his family into a bigger house. As youve been pointing out, we have a background buyer not wanting to bump up the price, when the Aecom news hits, or lets face it any left field news us Ricketeers are becoming accustomed to, and we will be off to the races. Hope youre feeling better and that we all have a good Easter break ready for the next chapter in the life of #familyvrs

[festario] 18/4/2019 23:32

So, in terms of shareholder value, a totally wasted week then.It's completely bizarre that the announcement on Monday has added nothing to the share price.I'd like to keep that stock market shut for the next four days.

[1teepee] 18/4/2019 23:29

Does anyone have any info on why the Aecom deal hasn't come yet?

[evergreen8] 18/4/2019 22:52

Chumbo yes while a metric of flexural strength I put the (MOR) in brackets after compressive and flexural strength as it is also an expression of the correlation between the two terms.

[ellissj] 18/4/2019 21:41

Some great input on the bb today. Enjoy yr long weekends. Best ellis.

[chumbo1] 18/4/2019 21:10

Evergreen, agree with your sentiments although MOR is a metric of flexural strength. Sorry to split hairs

[woodpeckers] 18/4/2019 20:28

Bob, thanks for your response. I can see that having control as a "wholly owned subsidiary" is presumably an advantage and that that is key.

Not sure I understand what you mean by this "most importantly allow other country based wholly owned subsidiaries to be set up."...why not just have other joint ventures? With both arrangements, they stated that they were non exclusive.

Isn't a joint venture easier to walk away from without loss should the need arise? I presumed it was going to be a bit more like franchising.

Just musing because I know nothing! 😂In fact, I'm sure I'm wrong as the BOD have obviously worked hard to get from the first deal to this. I just don't really understand why this is better....

Sorry for rambling.

[evergreen8] 18/4/2019 19:33

Phew! that's a relief thought I might have been boring the pants off people.

Spike_1 with regret I have no insight into Versarien's involvement with AECOM.

I can only speculate along with all other LTHs that AECOM would stand to benefit massively from the significant cost savings that VRS Graphene enhanced concrete would deliver.

Additionally, if the scale benefits in strength are in line with some of the projections it would make practical some of the larger projects that have never got off the ground for both practical and financial reasons giving AECOM the technological and cost advantage and unique ability to capture projects that other competitors would not be able to undertake. Win-win-win

[mryl] 18/4/2019 19:15

Evergreen 👍🏻 good post thank you.

[woodpeckers] 18/4/2019 18:39

lag, in honesty, I hadn't heard of it, I simply googled it when I saw your post but I'm guessing the answer is yes if you read the link I put up it suggests that it's a very small NY exchange that trades shares. Again, happy to be advised by anyone who knows more.