Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[ellissj] 12/1/2019 15:26

Nice find lucky. Think this is the expo greentech are at ? Best ellis

Goregaon Exhibition

"...ICERP event is an important event of the Indian composites industry organized by FRP Institute once in two years and ICERP event is the biggest event on Composites in India and second largest event in Asia. ICERP 2019 is the 9th in the series being organized by FRP Institute since 2002.The focus of the ICERP 2019 will be up-gradation of composites technology in India to reach global level in terms of product quality, finishing and also to address the challenges that have to be met to achieve global standards...."

[luckyorange] 12/1/2019 15:14

Don't give up the day job!

[pcjoe] 12/1/2019 15:04

Lucky - Cant see Graphene going into a lot of heavier plastic items if we cant get the price down to these levels (aircraft & EVs aside - which will have their own financial lightweighting calcs to aim at)- Maybe one for the future right enough - Aecom certainly seem to think they have a plastic product they can use it in though - Must stack up on the cost side for them - But more than £200 graphene costs per arch? - all will be revealed at some point no doubt

Also - We have 3T annual capacity in place? - 3T at £1 per G is £3mill turnover - No bankruptcy at that rate surely?

Compound - Your on..

[luckyorange] 12/1/2019 14:56

Arrow/ Sam Patel hosted a Versarien event in India then? Kept that one quiet.


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Versarien Exhibtion was exhilarating. Now starts the info analysis. Good prospects.
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[compoundup] 12/1/2019 14:34

pcjoe - I haven't started a new business for at least a couple of years. You get the purchase order from TfL. I'll speak nicely to Neill about mates rates for master-batch material and see if I can blag a printer from someone. Who needs AECOM? :-)

[luckyorange] 12/1/2019 14:14

Big fantasy that pcjoe if you think that £1 a gram is feasible, soon be bankrupt at that rate?

[pcjoe] 12/1/2019 14:04

Yeh Grabster - But great progress with the polygrene product - a real breakthrough and likely to lead to mass market demand if VRS can get the graphene price down - EVs and aircraft maybe places where most value is before most construction applications - also vrs will have to considerably scale up on manufacturing for the mass market - no sign of that Welsh factory just yet!

Compound -you design them- I'll stick em up - anyone got the aecom tel nr?

[compoundup] 12/1/2019 13:06

pcjoe - as a structural engineer, I would be designing a 3-d printed arch structure as a truss so as to get max Moment of Inertia for minimum weight. Using modern surveying kit and feeding that into 3-d printer for individual installation points, arch dimensions could be easily tailored to any cross-section of the tunnel. Cross-section of the printed structure could be triangular (and variable in size) - for lateral stiffness and providing easy cable-routing/clipping points.

The Aecom video that showed the concept of a 3-d printed arch would not be workable in practice because there's no stiffness at the footing points parallel to the direction of travel of the train. The first train that passed under an arch like that would blow it over.

[kemorkid] 12/1/2019 12:48

Very interesting tini5 and actually could work
Hope he gave you a good haircut!!!

[ellissj] 12/1/2019 12:31

EU cordis project bullish on benefits of graphene enhanced thermoplastics/polymers in 2011 (although example is xg sciences 3D graphene). Note Asia and US are target markets. Also Note comments of luxus re collab rns. Hopefully vrs on way to pioneer new products, claim market share and realise ambition contained in the cordis statement ! #Delivering. Aecom - USA. China. Korea - axia. Japan in January. Aimo. Best ellis

"...Peter Atterby, Luxus Managing Director, commented:  "Luxus constantly strives to be at the very forefront of thermoplastics technology innovation. We are excited to partner with Versarien to take this goal to a new level and redefine performance, durability and sustainability in the plastics industry by harnessing the benefits of graphene...."

CORDIS; OBJECTIVE.

"The aims of the NanoMaster project are to reduce the amount of plastic used to make a component by 50% and hence reduce component weight by 50%, at the same time as imparting electrical and thermal functionality. This will be achieved by developing the next generation of graphene-reinforced nano-intermediate that can be used in existing high-throughput plastic component production processes.
Graphene reinforced polymers have been demonstrated at lab scale in both Europe and the USA, and it has been shown that very low loadings of graphene can have a dramatic impact on the mechanical and physical properties of the polymers it is added to. However, industrial compounding processes have only so far been developed in the United States, where Ovation Polymers are already offering graphene thermoplastic masterbatches and compounds based on graphene from XG Sciences.
The concept for this project is to develop the knowledge-based processing methods required to up-scale the production of graphene and expanded graphite reinforced thermoplastic masterbatches and compounds and, ultimately, enable its industrial commercialisation in Europe. The work will focus on developing processes for large scale rapid production of graphene reinforced plastic intermediate materials which can be integrated into current conventional and additive manufacturing processes.
Successful development of these materials and processes will have a significant effect on the amount of polymer that needs to be used in a component to meet its performance criteria, and on the ability of plastic mouldings to delivery significantly enhanced functionality. These breakthroughs will open the door to a vast range of applications enabling the benefits to be exploited throughout Europe and beyond. They will also help to place European companies in a position to exploit the rapidly growing markets in the US and Asia-Pacific..."

[pcjoe] 12/1/2019 12:14

To follow on re polygrene - 1000T of polygrene at 2% graphene loading at £1 per gramme equtes to 20T of graphene

So £20 mill graphene revenue per 1000T polymer product sold

Plenty money to be made but some common sense required re potential graphene selling price imho - price may have to drop to 50p or so to be cost effective in many applications?

[tini5] 12/1/2019 12:03

At some point last summer, I took a visit to my barber and we were talking about EV and charging times. He then told me that he had a customer who had contracted out to a major car manufacturer in China/Japan (I can't remember which now) over a period of 6 months or so during 2017 and he understood that they were trying to develop technology that could create a length of wireless charging pads or track, that could be integrated into the road surface.

What you would end up with is instead of pulling over to charge at a service station for x amount of time, you would filter off the main carriageway and drive down a mile long length of "lay-by" at slow speed and it would charge your battery as you passed over the charging pads.

Guess you'd be tolled on entrance to the "charging lane". Whilst it wouldn't get you up to 100%, it would prevent you having to stop. Presumably you'd then drop these lanes in along your major motorways/highways and build a network up.

And then I told him all about graphene and Versarien. When I went back just before Christmas, I told him about the Gnanomat deal and he got rather excited.

Anyway, just a little anecdote but suffice to say, somewhere out there, people are thinking about very cool solutions to barriers to EV adoption.

[pcjoe] 12/1/2019 11:38

Owenga my calcs are fantasy - but considered fantasy - the arches must be easily manouvered and erected by two men - 20 kg does not seem unreasonable me having humphrd a few T of concrete in my time - typically glass fibre content is about 50% of finished item weight - hence graphene only required to load balance - the arch will have to support a myriad of cables/ducts etc - 8m does not seem an unreasonable spacing for such a structure

All fantasy maybe but I already have an idea how such items will be supported and erected - it's not rocket science & likely very simple using a couple of pre made concrete pad foundations:stainless steel shoes and an adjustable length stainless hook in the middle of the tunnel roof

Just playing with this - it interests me as a builder problem solving - as for price £200 for graphene per arch seems plenty to me at £1 per Gramme

Oh and 3D printing in hollow section composites not hard it seems - the printer is set to provide a support core in post dissolvable product with the outer layer finished with the toughened exterior grade product - Polygrene/glass fibre mix - all printed at same time - like this

[ellissj] 12/1/2019 11:26

Neills very careful re planning and 'targets.' ACC have long established customer base. So do luxus. Given this, none of vrs product development is likely to be random imo. Eg re polygrene rns; "offer customers" (new or likely prexisting) and "we are in discussions." Aimo. Glalth. Best ellis

"...Polygrene will enable Versarien to be able to offer customers an already compounded material incorporating graphene that they can use in existing production processes.

"We are in discussions with a number of potential customers for Polygrene and look forward to announcing specific applications where Polygrene is being used in due course."

[owenga] 12/1/2019 11:10

Pcjoe. Looking at your arch calculations, I would expect an arch to weigh far more than 10kg, and there is no way they would be selling graphen at only £1 per gram, £1,000 per kg. Surely at least 10 times that at least. But wtfdik. Lol and I doubt we will ever find out?

[owenga] 12/1/2019 10:59

At the pre Christmas meeting in london with Neill he talked about time it took to make the polymer and how speeds would increase dramatically with the new machine. I got the impression that the polymer was being made in house, presumably by AAC. May be that is a question someone could raise at the GEIC.

[owenga] 12/1/2019 10:56

I expect 200kgs of polymer would only do about 4-6 arches at a guess.

[owenga] 12/1/2019 10:54

No Ferdinand it's about 6kg of graphene.

[superg1] 12/1/2019 10:50

Luxus

The last update we had.

Graphene enhanced polymers and recycled polymers being are evaluated for customer projects. Initial results are expected shortly.

[superg1] 12/1/2019 10:48

F3

I take it that VRS obviously supply the graphene and either their own AAC does the mixing or one of those like Luxus who are linked up for that purpose.

I suppose it depends on what kit and skillset each business has which best matches the desired outcome for a particular graphene enhanced polymer.

At geic they had examples of enhanced polymers in pellet form in pots to view. They were about the size of pencil lead about 5mm long. They looked like pencil
lead due the the graphene in them. I recall one was enhanced glass fibre.

Whay you have then is a product ready to use for end users. No need for specialist kit or dispersion techniques. Supplied ready to go into production of whatever the end user wants.

That also removes the red tape around handling the powders etc. Some companies no doubt will just want the graphenes, others will want the enhanced ready to go polymer.

Many end users won’t have the skills, knowledge or kit to disperse graphene into a polymer. No need with VRS they have the supply chain set up ready to match the customers needs.

[baz99] 12/1/2019 10:46

Shavian Have had an outlander phev since 2015 and am very pleased with it.Typically takes a couple of hours to charge from scratch and you get approx 25-30 miles on electric depending on if you use the heater, heated seats etc.Once on petrol I get just over 40mpg which for a vehicle weighed down with 3 engines and batteries isn't too bad. Just get used to plugging it in every time you get home.Happy drivingBaz

[maisto] 12/1/2019 10:46

That 200kg of polygrene is for ISO testing purposes not for construction.

[f3rdinand] 12/1/2019 10:26

Yes I see what you're saying... so VRS makes the polymer rather than adds graphene to an existing one? Either way it's not 200kg of graphene!

[pshevlin] 12/1/2019 10:24

I wouldn't have thought that 200kg of that would go very far superg. They will need a lot more presumably to do any significant construction work.