Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[club sandwich] 22/7/2018 12:01

lucky - you're right, of course. Important to remember Seneca - “They lose the day in expectation of the night, and the night in fear of the dawn.”

Or, if you prefer. Mick Jagger: "Real life is what happens while you're making other plans." ;-)

Hard not to be super-excited though... ;-)

[luckyorange] 22/7/2018 11:58

For goodness sake, one step at a time, calm down people!

[club sandwich] 22/7/2018 11:54

And let's not forget that MW's job title is 'Head of International Strategy & Government Relations'. We're all obsessing over China (or at least I am ;-), but as far as I'm aware we haven't done deal one in the USA yet - a totally virgin market probably as big as China...

[club sandwich] 22/7/2018 11:50

£100bn here and £100bn there and pretty soon you're talking real money... ;-)

[club sandwich] 22/7/2018 11:44

love - who knows? If 24 Chinese provinces sign and want 20,000T of nanene a year (total) within 5 years then quickly. If not then a decade or two ;-)

I'm fully aware this all sounds totally delusional. But it's really not too much of an extrapolation: we know various sectors/industries want graphene. We know VRS are one of the only providers (maybe the *only* provider) of high-quality GNPs. We know they have the backing of HMG and have deals with the Israeli and (we hope!) Chinese governments. We know they are making strenuous efforts to scale up production to meet massive anticipated future demand.

After all, in 1996 you could buy Apple shares for $1 each. What's the share price now, 22 years later? Pure-play digital companies aren't exact comparators (atoms are much harder), but look at the increase in sp's of Google, Amazon, Netflix, FB etc. Stellar increases in MC and share price are possible if a company has the right product, in the right place, at the right time (and with the right mgmt and marketing). We hope VRS is one such, but really only time will tell.

One thing's for sure - HMG aren't involved because they think China will be worth a few tens of millions of revenue. They're thinking in terms of 100's of millions, billions, tens of billions etc. We can only hope they're right - but as I've said before there's no doubting the ambition of NR and MW...

[kemorkid] 22/7/2018 11:37

Excellent ,brilliant posts superg1.
Many thanks

KK

[loveder] 22/7/2018 11:34

Sorry crossed post !

[loveder] 22/7/2018 11:32

£385 bill MC will give us a share price about £2500. Sounds reasonable !
Any idea when Club ?

[club sandwich] 22/7/2018 11:28

A MC of £385bn would be a share price of c.£2,600.

Not tomorrow, or next week, next month or next year: but if China does come off as we hope (even if not all 24 provinces sign), and some big (100T+) orders start arriving, and more huge corps sign collab deals, what's to stop it except a takeover? What we do know is that many many industries are aware of the theoretical benefits of graphene but haven't been able to find a supply of quality material. If VRS can solve the scale-up issue - and they seem to be doing so - then there are no limits to growth. We could see *explosive* growth for decades to come. And of course we're all obsessing about graphene, but in 5 or 10 years VRS will be very far from a one-trick pony...

Call me insane, but my blue-sky fantasy is production facilities all over China producing thousands of tons of nanene to go into that transparent concrete for the B&R initiative (a $7trn program, remember). And yes, I know back in March NR specifically ruled out being involved with B&R - but things change. After all, back then they were talking to 1 province. And by the time B&R is done then other sectors may have matured to take up the slack in demand, and other 2D materials will have appeared to keep the company's momentum going.

But I'm sure that's all just a deluded fantasy...

[axotyl] 22/7/2018 11:24

squire - I'm sure you have already, but a search for 'graphene' in Pirelli.com comes up with sections on:

"Graphene supercapacitors: could they be the future of electric cars?" - Jan'18; "Hero Cycles: light, modern, global" - Jul'18; "Top 10 emerging technologies tipped to change the world (...graphene will revolutionise manufacturing across many industries)" - Sept'17.

See:

[club sandwich] 22/7/2018 11:15

Super

"Actually the figure I saw a while ago based on some 'bits' mentioned was £385 bill"

Figure for what, VRS MC?

Y'all do realise that would make it the most valuable UK company by MC, double its nearest rival ( and about half an Apple (depending on the dollar exchange rate on any given day)? On 7 June 2018 Apple Inc. had a MC of $954.7...

[20pc] 22/7/2018 11:09

Calling all newbies, well not just newbies I consider myself as an oldby re VRS and still go back and smile like a cheshire cat when I go through these links. Any shorters would also be well advised to see what they are dealing with. When you read through the links it will give you enough info to research for months. Make sure you read the Outcomes , Key Findings (Exploitation Route), Impact summary, and especially Spin Outs. don't just listen to me though Prof. Andrea Ferrari, director of the Cambridge Graphene Centre is also quite excited (understatement). PS this is all about the inks side of the business, Nanene is doing quite well or so I hear.

[squire007] 22/7/2018 10:58

Anyone notice the connection between F1 & Pirelli Tyres (who make all the racing tyres) !?
If any one group are ahead on rubber handling etc in tyres it is these boys first.
Was a cheeky little mention somewhere ;-)

[superg1] 22/7/2018 10:21

The value of companies like this is not based on figures or results.

Bluejay with no revenue is about £200 mill.

Already mentioned Nano who have losses of £50 mill in the last 5 years is £118 mill.

They are valued on investor demand to own the shares in anticipation of material future higher values and material revenue for the company.

On the other end good old AGM will report around £100k revenue a 60% drop on the previous year and £4 mill of losses. Taking their investor cash wasted in 4 years to £16 million. I say wasted as the vast majority has been simply to pay wages for all those staff they took on.

We are where we are here due to the prospects of having graphene that works and shed load of interest, based on that and the VRS superb unrivalled connections in the graphene industry.

China and its move from 1 interested to 24 is spectacular so how many LOIs or MOUs do we have coming from that way?

[jointer13] 22/7/2018 10:12

a section of molatovkid post

Scalability

"An important issue for the use of graphene inks in printed electronics and other applications is scalability – producing inks and dispersions in large enough quantities for industrial applications. With the 100% yield of the microfluidisation method, it is now possible to produce high quality graphene in sufficient quantities for commercial products.
Inks produced using this method have already been commercialised via a University of Cambridge spin out company, Cambridge Graphene, which was recently acquired by engineering solutions company Versarien. The inks are also supplied to Graphene Flagship partner Novalia, UK for use in their interactive touch-based printed electronic demos. Chris Jones of Novalia said "For viable marketable applications, the materials need to be cost effective, easy to handle and show consistent performance. We ran these inks on ordinary industrial screen printing equipment without modification and achieved consistent results, printing hundreds of interactive demonstrators for Mobile World Congress. This is a very exciting point - a critical juncture between the laboratory and the public."
Andrea Ferrari, Science and Technology Officer of the Graphene Flagship and Chair of its Management Panel, stated "This is an important conceptual advance, and will significantly help the innovation and industrialization goals of the Flagship. The fact that the process is already licensed and commercialized indicates how it is feasible to cut the time from lab to market even during the lifetime of the Flagship.""

[superg1] 22/7/2018 10:10

Pc

Actually the figure I saw a while ago based on some 'bits' mentioned was £385 bill.

So I don't think my £1 bill to £5 bill 1 to 5 year target is that bad.

We'll see where it ends up as time goes on.

As for the market not catching on. One guy with a pen that informs millions of folk is starting to pay attention. It's up to him whether he can work out the hype about graphene isn't hype.

[superg1] 22/7/2018 10:05

For newcomers to investing.

Some time back a company called Nanoco came up with cadmium free quantum dots. The PIs went nuts when Nano linked up with DOW and the BB was full of huge excitement over something where the main interest was putting them into TV screens.

The peak share price was in 2013 and was about £1.90. It put a market cap value of the company of over £400 mill as I recall.

That was just one big name and one main use, TV screens.

2013 to 2017 Nano losses total £48.5 mill.

Total revenue over those last 5 years is about £9 mill.

The market cap currently sits around £118 mill. The reason for that is there is a market for it.

Near £50 mill of losses to bring cadmium free Qdots to TV screens.


Graphene if you have the real deal can go into TV screens and 10's of 1000's of other products enhancing them all. Graphene is a revolution as it dramatically enhances products to levels previously thought impossible.

Impossible because the 2D revolution was not there some years back.

VRS is potentially the world lead in graphene, on the skills and connections they seem way in front.

So you have Nanoco product market x 1000's.

The difference currently is everyone was talking Nano back then and a particular analyst analyst pumped it to death with ridiculous comments and the market was crazy for such shares.

The market is currently oblivious to graphene but a few have spotted the VRS potential. That's why the graphene Aim sector sees very little interest from the market.

If you check the news the market is sitting on record levels of cash.

At some point in the near future graphene is going to hit the headlines as something that works and as a fantastic future investment.

When that train starts to roll a large number of analysts will jump on board on the real graphene boom will begin. Goldman sachs due to their long Sept 2016 report on the topic will say "told you so"

Fortunately before that train leaves the station the graphene deceit in the market should be kicked into touch (ISO and standards) with a small number of companies being viable to invest in.

Things like a China deal would probably have VRS in the national news and may well kick off the graphene investing boom imo.

[molatovkid] 22/7/2018 09:56

Info about Graphene inks commercialisation and VRS even get a mention!https://graphene-flagship.eu/scalable-graphene-inks

[club sandwich] 22/7/2018 09:51

"On low amounts for testing and so on various customers then it would imo be a higher price."

Super - well we know McLaren paid £100k for 1Kg, but I doubt they'd pay £100m for 1T ;-)

PCJoe

"10000T of Nanene produced will take that to £5 Bill revenue - On a ratio of 10 - Thats a mkt Cap value of £50Bill

All on 50P per Gramme


Clubbie maybe not so far off...."

£50bn would be a share price of about £350 a share. Personally I think your 10,000T is way too high, at least initially.

Whatever the exact figures, if VRS has multiple production facilities in China producing significant amounts of nanene - hundreds or thousands of Ts a year (initially) - the share price is going to be far far higher than it is now - tens or scores of pounds. See my Twitter exchange with MW this week...

[pcjoe] 22/7/2018 09:45

So you reckon Im a bit conservative on the £50 Bill Mkt Cap SG? - Forgot about the ink right enuff

Anyway - anyway no more money Chat - Aff up to Ardnamurchan for a weeks fly fishing with my pals - Pine Martens in the back Garden - Golden/Sea eagles in the Sky & salmon in the river (we hope!) - plenty whisky & beer to go around & a few discerning midges each - If you could float it - It would merit a £50 Bill Mkt Cap on its own...

[20pc] 22/7/2018 09:39

I thought I had looked into a Spanish connection before, we were obviously thinking the same then then here is my post from 16th May 12037

Regarding the cycle helmets a Spanish company named Catlike (If I recall, didn't we wonder a while back why NR had popped out to Spain) this article is from a factory visit with the quote “We glue the polystyrene balls to the aramid roll cage says Villa. “And in the case of the Mixino, this is the stage where we add graphene.”

[shavian] 22/7/2018 09:09

Good video on 2019 regulation changes in F1. Look at all those lovely opportunities for Nanene. Simplified (!) nosecone aerodynamics for a start.

[superg1] 22/7/2018 08:35

Pc

As I mentioned a while back I thought a near future 35,000 tonnes sounded like too much.

However some calculations on future use in plastics at a 1% loadings average came out at 30,000 tonnes of graphene, 10% use 300,000 tonnes. Just for plastics.

China came up with an expected near future graphene market of $200 billion just in China.

I looked up conductive inks this morning of which silver is dominant, but as a source material is up to 400 times more expensive than graphite.

That medium sized machine Stephen Hodge mentioned can produce 65 tonnes of graphene ink per year.

[spike_1] 22/7/2018 08:30

psxtalks2u: good morning, and thank you for correcting me! - actually I didn't say 14 'contacts', I said 14 'entities' for that very reason, but 'provinces or companies' works for me too, and yes it's 24 NOT 14 - slapped wrist!

Edit- now looked at RNS:

Operational highlights :
Graphene interest in China on-going with 24 potential partners now identified. Joint ventures will bedetermined by funding levels and IP protection

Note to Editors:
...has resulted in possible links with another 23 cities or companies in China,

Best wishes - Spike