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[superg1] 18/4/2017 12:40

Now all he needs to do is ask the NGI where he can get some. :-)

[handygandhi] 18/4/2017 12:31

He's also posted the NGI video on his website.

[sandbag] 18/4/2017 12:25

Good to read that he has been speaking to the NGI.

[superg1] 18/4/2017 12:16

I see Richard Branson has just stuck it on his own website now.



I'm happy to do the sales pitch if needed. :-)

[superg1] 18/4/2017 12:15

VRS have dispersion sorted. That's another point some sell the stuff but can't advise on how end users mix it.

VRS can provide it with the dispersion done to use in the end user normal process.

[chumbo] 18/4/2017 12:09

I suppose the logical price/quality differentiator would be particle size distribution if that can be easily manipulated.

[superg1] 18/4/2017 12:05

Punch taverns and other pub companies are a great example of how to kill a business and industry.

They tie in the landlords then discount the beer sales too them which are priced way above the going rate before they discount it meaning the tied in folk pay well over the price to get the beer, plus the rent of pub and full repairing lease.

Punch are loaded up with office staff and managers over-seeing the rip off. I knew of one desperate to get out but tied in so I went in as a buyer to meet up with the area manager and the landlord and had a chat. He turned up in a gleaming brand new top of the range company Merc and gave out some BS. The Landlord went on about losing money working 90 hours per week. I dropped a clause on the area manager saying the landlord could walk with no costs, nah he said can't do that. I pulled out their own codes of practice pointing out the relevant line the landlord smile and was gone within days. I like days like that.

[handygandhi] 18/4/2017 11:59

(rogerbridge)
Speaking from experience, I think you'll find that there's a big difference between professional salesmen on commission and reps on expenses.

[serratia] 18/4/2017 11:57

SG,
the first thing to do is analyse the value chain. A rough example - A weight reduction on a 747 saves fuel so over say 15 years the savings to an airline can be estimated. Boeing will want to capture a part of that with a price rise. What they can get depends on the payback time needed by the airline. VRS then look to capture part of the 747 price increase. Let's say they target 10% of the 747 price increase, knowing how much Grapheme would be used in a 747 they can then set a price.
The task is to focus on the areas where the customer has the greatest potential gains and target those areas first. Pricing on what it costs to make is the wrong route. High price low volume is the place to start when a) there's no competition and b) capacity is relatively low.
We had a saying for dropping price for volume. When you drop the price to enter a new market segment the original high price customers will force your price to them down. It's called p*ssing in the soup.
The best price you get for a new product is the first sale, prices always erode over time. Stay as high as possible and only reduce when forced by competition or when the high priced market is saturated. Then it becomes a strategic decision to go for the next segment down on the price ladder. There seem to be so many areas that can support high prices there seems no reason to lower prices for some time.
When you do decide to go for a lower margin segment if you have no competition there are ways to protect the high margin customers from a price drop.
I sold a product in a high margin area but went for another application that could only support a lower price. I called the new market product a lower but acceptable spec. I added something to the new product that cost little was fine for the new customer but screwed up the use by the high margin customer. It wasn't long before the high margin customer ordered some of the new product to test. We explained that it's lower quality and might not work and it didn't ! High prices continued.

[rogerbridge] 18/4/2017 11:48

I was part owner in a company which we sold on. At one point sales needed to improve and we decided to dispose of the reps, the M.D. and myself plus one other visited the key customers and other important customers and the sales figures flew higher. Lots of reps going around on expenses, a good one is hard to find.

[superg1] 18/4/2017 11:37

Good point Sky

Like trying to get a good solicitor or plumber, if they are available this month don't use them.

'relevant hires will all be fairly unique'

Good point, the sales world won't be full of experienced graphene folk.

[skylite] 18/4/2017 11:17

There's an assumption here that this Nanene business will require a sales dept model we've all become used to. It won't.

This is ground breaking and game changing material (if we are to believe VRS), meetings, sales cycles, relevant hires will all be fairly unique and take time to bed in.

I'm a Sales Director in IT/Telco, 10s of millions in turnover, 40%+ ebitda. I don't have the best sales team in the world, the product, service and support sells itself - and FWIW our website (from a sales point of view) is sh*te.

I'm sure NR knows what he's doing. At the moment I'm not bothered by the sp, hope it gets hit by MM plays so I can fill my new ISA up. Eventually there's a convergence between orders, news and share price You have to be patient in this game.

[superg1] 18/4/2017 11:15

On trademarks.

First you need to find a name that doesn't clash (not easy with ink), then register it, at which point it goes through some processes and then ends up with about 2 months of an objection period post publication before it gets fully registered so it takes time.

[vasilis] 18/4/2017 11:07

SG - Who says slavery has been abolished? I wonder what the Romans would have made of whole armies of company workers on 'zero hours contracts' :-)

Seriously, on the inks front, I am pleased that Neill has the trademarks issue in hand. If we can get Nanene and 'Graphink' (?) in place as our two principle offerings - with people and resources in place - plus websites up to speed - we will undoubtedly be in a better place in my view.

[superg1] 18/4/2017 11:03

I just watched a recent video where Cambridge graphene were present. Prof Ferrari the ink guy was talking about graphene and 5G and beyond where the industry has no answer yet and he suggests graphene is the answer with Nokia and Ericsson mentioned as working on a 'component'.

Obviously we know Nokia have been with Cambridge graphene ink early on.

[superg1] 18/4/2017 10:54

I don't think having 2-3 million slaves to do the work is a fair comparison. ;-)

I don't think learning from the Romans in those circs by using slaves would wash well with working time directives and minimum wages.

[superg1] 18/4/2017 10:48

On that point I'm thinking of the bigger picture with the likes of like Proctor and Gamble and Unilver, right down the bottom end on packaging. Yes they bleed you to death on margins but they have declared savings to make with lighter packaging and longer shelf life.

EG if you have food packing that weighs 10 grams and taking the rubber additive rate with a 50% gain of .01 the Gnps needed for such packaging is .01 grams. That's probably way too much additive for packaging but in the £10 down range it's starts to become feasible.

[vasilis] 18/4/2017 10:41

phoenixs - the quicker the pace on the things you mention, the greater the need to address your business strategy and objectives on an on-going basis. Activity for activity's sake without co-ordinating everything else to back-up that activity is asking for potential trouble further down the line in my book. Which is why I brought up the issue of the websites since for me they were an indication of some things 'getting out of sync'.

So in the case of ancient Rome which you raise I would say this. The Roman planners designed and made the specifications as well as sorting out the logistics before the actual building of Rome took place. And I'm quite sure that supervisors then kept tabs on all the activity as it happened to ensure that materials,skilled workmen, kitchens, quantities of food to feed workers etc were in the right place at the right time and didn't 'get out of sync'. That's what Romans did - whether it was cities, roads, viaducts, hippodromes etc. - they always planned and co-ordinated activities. And even today companies can learn a thing or two from the Romans in my view.

SG - You make my case very well on the sales front. If we are getting lots of enquiries then we need the professional resources to handle them - no question about that. But usually you have at least some resource in place - and I don't mean the CEO - to be focussed 24/7 on sales and marketing issues - and in place before and not after launch. Remember the Romans :-)

[superg1] 18/4/2017 10:02

Roger

I have a very dim view of sales staff and love no grey area vacant. It seems to me the sales industry is 95% BS at times.

EG

I arranged a vist for a quote on something, I was expecting heaps of BS. The guy that arrived it turned out as I had known for years but hadn't seen for some time. That was great I was up front with him saying cut the BS and let's get on with it. He then went through a series of BS and lies which I decided to let him run with. I read the T and C which had a no fee cancellation so thought stuff you, wasted his time signed up to make him smile and think of his commission then cancelled it in the time limit.

Unfortunately that's what many companies train their staff to be like and train them to lie to get the sale. Often it's all about the commission and sod all to do with customer service and repeat custom.

Therefore good sales staff are few and far between for the likes of a decent honest company.

[superg1] 18/4/2017 09:43

The old rule, look after the pennies, they do that in great detail.

Any old sales team is no good the wrong folks can do more harm than good. The only car sales person that ever spoke the truth to me was a lady, and the only lady I have ever dealt with in that role. As a result of lies I ditched one car make altogether and will never go back, that's what BS does for your business. They had my Mrs over when my back was turned.

As for the lady I spoke to she got the sale and I'll keep returning to her year in year out as long as she is there.

[superg1] 18/4/2017 09:26

Vas

As said a plan is in place to get the right people and it's something I raised myself. The reply included not the desire not to rush and get the wrong people but to make sure they get the right folk. The CEO and CFO have much experience of what are good and bad staff. One good one can be worth half a dozen poor staff. In my experience just a few poor performers can end up taking a considerable amount of time to support and if necessary sort out.

If you look at it from the VRS point of view, they had told the world they have under 10 layer high quality graphene but when they actually added a brand name to it just like the market reaction it suddenly became news with big interest.

The OEM went to the NGI looking for GNPs and were directed to VRS it seems. There has been lot of graphene junk in the market over the last few years which no doubt has some thinking it doesn't work because they have tried the junk and got poor results.


On the flip side if you look at AGM they have something like 25 senior roles producing virtually no sales at all wasting about £3.5 mill in wages each year. If VRS were like that stacked with such staff that would have been near £10 mill wasted in the time I've been following VRS, so I prefer the prudent approach.

However I entirely agree they now need to get the right folk in on sales which is in play.

My experience of sales as a customer is in general I end up with some lying BS person feeding me false information (caught them out many times). In the case of VRS I'm sure they wouldn't want those type of staff or that type of approach. Hence they have had their product proven up by the best possible routes before the sales process started.

In theory (going by news) sales since Nanene launch are higher than what AGM have done since they appeared a few years ago and VRS had no sales team.

[phoenixs] 18/4/2017 09:25

Vasilis
I wouldn't disagree with anything that you have written. However, given the pace at which VRS have been going re acquisitions, trade fairs and new product, I am inclined to give them a little more space and time to deal with the website issues which you have raised and to have the confidence in them to sort out the revenue enquiries from the chaff. Rome wasn't built in a day.

[fatherjack2] 18/4/2017 09:15

Bazz - thank you

'now is not the time for small thinking though' - makes me wonder just how big are they thinking?