Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[superg1] 23/4/2017 07:48

Ax

I have posted on AGM, that's half the issue it seems most investors don't read BBs like this so they are portably oblivious to the underlying issue as Applied graphene.


Lucky

If Applied graphene can spin it out for more years then it's easy money for the team.

Anyone that reads it through it thoroughly and can't see what is going on re the tech and the continuing failure in that regard is just plain stupid and shouldn't invest in anything if they don't take the time to understand the news and situation.

The company does well in share price terms as there aren't any normal funds of more in it to say "woah hang on a mo"

EG

IP2IPO 21.2
Insight 11.7
North East Technology 9.6
Ruffer 5.9
Durham University 5.6
Ballie Gifford 4.4
North East POC Fund 3.6

Durham is where the tech came from and about 6-7 years on it's doesn't work as intended.

IP2IPO (IP group)

They are an AIM company that invests in University spin outs, in this case it's a dud so far and they own 21.1% of it.

But then look at North east technology 9.6%

Managed by IP Group plc the £28m North East Technology Fund invests in technology businesses which are based in, or are willing to relocate to North East England.

North east POC fund 3.6%

The North East Proof of Concept Fund (POC) was launched in December 2003 to invest in local science and technology-based companies in their earliest stages.

It's most all North east related and start up support. As it stands it's a house of cards Imo.

They should be back for another £8 mill this year but from whom. It's still in the 10% range on dilution.

IP group it seems already have fingers in the pie of 30.7 %.

[luckyorange] 22/4/2017 17:25

If the new CFO at AGM (Applied Graphene Materials to avoid confusion :-)) has anything about him, he will be applying for other positions over the next six months now that he has looked at the books.

Hopefully the cash burn at VRS will be entirely different now the company has been consolidated with the factory move because on the face of it a similar picture could be painted with last years results.

[handygandhi] 22/4/2017 13:24

Turnigy Graphene Battery



Also available on eBay!

[axotyl] 22/4/2017 10:52

Superg, I'm the new kid on the block, and therefore hesitate to point out that other newcomers to the VRS BB, taking a quick glance, and unfamiliar with the relevant names, might think you're talking about VRS in the above (AGM = Annual General Meeting?).

Maybe the AGM b'board is the natural home for your observations?

Though, if you do, get ready to duck....:)

[superg1] 22/4/2017 08:42

Why spin BS

Well the key people in a company are the CEO and Chair I'd say CFO but he left.

The Chair and the CEO have options.

The target to trigger the options is an increase in the share price at 25% over the AIM all share index.

Chair options about 492,000 shares and a price of 20p

CEO 323k shares at 33p.

Share price 185p.

So they have very handsome options based on getting the share price up.

[superg1] 22/4/2017 08:07

Doh I keep promising not to mention AGM then a discussion starts.

I don't bang on about Directa plus, I've not really looked them up. Those that have known me long enough by now know I sound off about companies that either look like a fraud or are kidding the market. There are dozens of graphene companies and room for all of them. My beef with AGM is how they gloss it up to cover up a technology issue and if they don't get it going those invested are screwed as they have no other business.

Over 3 years on now and not one things has changed on the technology. That's not me saying it, that's the small print in every interims and annual report. It gives clear indication in risks that they have not managed to get it to work to the capacity they state.

As if to prove it they glossed up demand in news going on about a 2 week 24/7 run time to meet demand.

That demand was listed as requests for research samples, so that means top dollar per gram. (detailed in the annual report)

When the results came it can be seen that the 2 week 24 hour per day run got them about £50k in sales.

That was 24 hrs per day production for 2 weeks for £50k worth of GNPs at top prices.

Cash burn is over £4 mill per year. Due to staff numbers and previously declared employee costs it works out that near £3.5 mill of that is wages.

That £4 mill costs is works out to over £150k for a 2 week period which is 3 times what their max run rate could provide in revenue.

That plant from the off was supposed to be a 1 tonne PA plant with capability to do that. I doubt they based that on 24/7 365 when they declared it but may have.

Since that time they have upped the capacity to 1.5 tonnes and 1.6 tonnes pa but declare the tech is unproven to work at those levels or the 1 tonne level.

They have to keep expanding it because that's what they declared they would do with funds raised.

Fund raise 1 and float was supposed to see it expanded to 8 tonnes. They got to 1.5/1.6 tonnes. The last fund raise was to expand to 6 tonnes and I see no evidence to date that they have done that.

Just about all of it goes on wages.

31st Jan this year £5.6 mill cash. Cash burn £1 mill plus per quarter so in H2 they have less than 12 months cash left.

Now what do they do with that cash having said the raise was to expand to 6 tonnes. They must be in a difficult situation no CFO to steer the cash ship.

What do they tell the funds if they haven't expanded. The funds will want to know where the cash went. If they expand to 6 tonnes then surely it means the cash left will burn faster and a fund raise soon.

So what do they say when they come to the next cash raise if they haven't expanded.

"we need cash to expand to 6 tonnes".

That production at research prices should have been £400 per gram revenue. Rumour control suggests AGM have sold some at £1000 per gram but I'll use £100.

That would be 500 grams produced over the 2 week period where the capacity is supposed to be 1 tonne PA. Or 2.75 kgs per day (24/7 365 rates)

The production on that basis should have been sorted within about 4 hours not 336 hours.

[luckyorange] 21/4/2017 18:07

Someone is buying them though, the CFO killed off any idea of investing in the company and he didn't speak for long, cash burn of £4 mill pa , it's nuts!

[timbo003] 21/4/2017 18:02

>>>>Vas, I definitely wouldn't buy them either, at least not at this stage and at anything like the current price. It's a bit of an attention grabbing headline though.

[phoenixs] 21/4/2017 17:52

Vasilis, I am with you on that one. Ever buying one share of AGM is an absolute no no.
I cannot believe that some have and will do.

[rogerbridge] 21/4/2017 17:33

Cambridge open day sold out.

[rogerbridge] 21/4/2017 16:45

VRS now at reasonable level for buying in. SG, the guy I told you about.

[vasilis] 21/4/2017 16:40

Tim

Personally, I've no intention of ever putting a penny into AGM. After listening to that interview the only thing I learnt is that I'm even more certain of not changing my mind.

[timbo003] 21/4/2017 16:13

See article/pod cast below (active link) from this week's Investors Chronicle

[vasilis] 21/4/2017 16:12

The action on L2 could reflect someone offloading in my view. The large percentage of 10k and 20k sells doesn't seem random to me. But that's not unusual on AIM. It can be very volatile both going up and coming down - and people can have any number of reasons when it comes to selling - especially if they are 'traders' as others have pointed out. Like others, I focus on the business itself rather than the share price Or to use the nautical expression, 'you can only ever try and control the direction of your own boat - but never the dance of the sea'.

bones - just 6 months ago you could pick up sack-fulls for just over 10p, when the UoM converted their loan into shares at 19p.

[festario] 21/4/2017 16:08

AliFish, SuperG is referring to me.He's jokingly saying that because I've bought some shares here, it's bound to go down.Let's hope he's wrong eh?

[superg1] 21/4/2017 16:07

On the BB ali a new PI investor.

Bones

My target is a lot higher and I thinking 1 or 2 years before it will get there on a normal chug along route.

However this sector could ping at any time because one of the hold ups has been the ability for commercial quantities of GNPs that work at a price that fits each market.

As I know VRS can produce then on any scale depending on the number of modules and can do so very cheaply then either the market wants graphene or it doesn't, that is the gamble.

I don't have the gamble as IF VRS can do large scale and IF they can do high quality and IF they can do low cost. I already know the answer.

If the market is talking 35000 tonnes then just 1 of those tonnes would keep me happy.

EG 1 tonne at £1 per gram is £10 million revenue.

VRS could tweak up to 1 tonne PA no problem if the demand was there and I suspect no further cash needed that's what extra digging does.

The going rate seems to be £100 plus per gram for now.

There is no point offering it up for £2 per gram or £10 per gram in market that is paying well over that, but if necessary and someone wanted a big enough order then why not.

On the phone seek out all the research demand out there at high prices then see where you stand along the way.

[bones] 21/4/2017 15:47

The shares are heavily up compared to a couple of months ago. What is your timescale is the question to ask oneself.

[ali47fish] 21/4/2017 15:13

sorry super- what do you mean a new arrival- has he been appointed by the board- i am still not clear aa ro why the shares are heavily down?

[superg1] 21/4/2017 14:41

Festario

A new VRS arrival, I know him from other shares and I'll be helping out trying to get money recovered for PRG investors.

I think it high time PIs dug in and started to hit back on these scumbag AIM directors who fleece PIs. Hopefully along the wy we can out a nomad or two out of business too.

Recently an MM guy told me calling 90% of nomads corrupt was incorrect and 100% was more appropriate.

Down the line I would hope to engage with AIM bosses and ask WTF they allow it to happen.

Perhaps it's just a case of targets to get AIM company numbers up. Many come here as they know it's an easy crime to make a load of money and never get dealt with it seems.

[ali47fish] 21/4/2017 14:30

who is fest super?

[superg1] 21/4/2017 14:29

BTW

Recently while playing with relevant VRS words to see what I could find I dropped on this page. The words I used are not on the page but a bit obvious why I ended up there.

I have dropped hints about standards coming from the NGI/National Physical laboratory and website.



So when this boxes start to get filled and the standards set for companies like VRS it will be a good day.

This Certification Service is delivered through a partnership between the UK’s National Physical Laboratory (NPL), and the National Graphene Institute (NGI): each contributes world-leading science and technology coupled with ‘real world’ experience, to provide a unique and important service to support the growing market for materials and products that incorporate 2D materials.

[chumbo] 21/4/2017 13:28

Compoundup - are you ok to pick me up from Sheffield? :-)

[festario] 21/4/2017 12:58

It's what usually happens, I have to admit.

[superg1] 21/4/2017 12:57

The Chairman could have been selling of course and he may need the cash for those businesses he has.

However I think the main issue is Fest buying we were fine until he arrived. ;-)