Vernalis Share Discussion Threads

[filbert3] 20/2/2008 10:29

But the problem is that the sector as a whole has completely failed to deliver profitable, sustainable companies that have EVER actually delivered on the promises of the technology they sought to develop. Just because PTI might appear less of a failure at the moment, does not make it a success.

The only sustainanable profitable such company is Shire, but that, as discussed is not really a biotech (although it did start out developing its daffodil extracts for Alzheimer's so started out as one, at least).

Some failures:

Scotia
Cortecs
Proteus
Oxford Molecular
Chiroscience
Cantab
Phytopharm
Peptide Therapeutics
Biocompatibles
Ardana
Vernalis
British Biotech
Stanford Rook
Ribotargets
Cenes
Skyepharma
Proteus
Xenova


Some of these still exist in some form, but failures never the less.

I'm sure there's a lot I've missed too, lost in my mists of time...

[vow] 20/2/2008 10:05

Nope. Languishing an predeal prices, but still up a HELL of a lot on the rest of the sector over the past 5 years.

[spacecowboy3] 20/2/2008 09:32

fhmktg

As you may know, PTI was formed from the remains of Proteus and Therapeutic Antibodies. Proteus goes back to at least 1993 - i remember visiting them and being unconvinced by their technology but very impressed by the expensive cars in the car park!! The market cap of PTI today is £178m - I haven't done the arithmetic but would be amazed if that represented even a half decent rate of return on the capital invested.

[fhmktg] 20/2/2008 08:37

Protherics?
surely a success?

[filbert3] 20/2/2008 08:33

True - but its the best one can come up with when looking for a biotech success story in the UK - ie there hasn't actually been one, and doesn't look like there ever being one at all at the moment - certainly no candidates out there at the moment as far as I can see - a shower of incompetence and non-delivery is all that can be seen. The list of failures is vast.

[spacecowboy3] 20/2/2008 08:24

I once added up how much capital had been invested in Celltech over the years and compared it to the sale price to UCB - investors would have been better to put their money in the building society!

I agree about Shire being a success, but wouldn't really class them as a 'biotech' in the sense of being a research based company (Shire's strategy was 'search and development' not 'research and development').

[filbert3] 20/2/2008 08:23

The next announcement will probably be that its going the way of Ardana....

[quraishim] 20/2/2008 08:18

sounds recovery procedure sets in finally ....great news, no need to raise more money.....sensible move Fellner

[filbert3] 20/2/2008 08:13

Powderject wasn't really a biotech by the time it was sold - various traditional vaccine interests had been bought in which are what Chiron bought, the core technology having been essentially abandoned. Powdermed was spun out as a result, and ultimately sold to Pfizer, but that didn't benefit the shareholders of Powderject, mainly the new investors (ie Abingworth).

The UK has not managed to generate any self sustaining biotechs other than maybe Shire. Other than Shire, the sector as a whole is an embarrassment, even Celltech having been sold of fcheap by Fellner to UCB. Somehow he came out of that as a hero - in my view the opposite should have been the case.

[spacecowboy3] 20/2/2008 07:52

Filbert

Yes - IIRC Vernalis was going to be Fellner's vehicle for 're-vitalising' the UK biotech industry by acquiring lots of 'underperforming' companies and moulding them into one decent one with its own sales and marketing capability. It was rumoured that he only acquired Ribotargets because of Simon Sturge. All in all a pretty sorry story. AFAICS the UK still hasn't produced a successful 'biotech' (maybe Powderject?) - i'm amazed that institutions are still prepared to invest in the sector.

[filbert3] 20/2/2008 07:40

Total capitulation, in reality - get rid if the revenue generating bits and keep the highly risky and unlikely to generate much R and D.

Ths really is an embarrassment fot Fellner and the UK.

British Biotech + Vernalis + Ribotargets and all it comes to is this.

How many 100's of millions have been invested in the above? - and all reduced to approx 20m (ie the cash, no enterprise value at all ), with little (if any) chance of recovery.

As I said, an embarrassment for Fellner, the UK biotech sector, and the UK as a whole. Surely Fellner's reputation (for it is he who is responsible for the strange fusion of companies which resulted in Vernalis) must finally be shot by now?

[fhmktg] 20/2/2008 07:24

Wow!!
Lets see how the market takes that!
Classic Fellner deal.

[chancer6] 15/2/2008 17:02

Good recovery today!

[quraishim] 15/2/2008 09:24

ver trend is usually slow in the morning and then momentum picks up.....slow and steady to 12p to start with............

[chancer6] 14/2/2008 20:11

Yep excellent find, cheers!

[quraishim] 14/2/2008 20:04

john...excellent find, holding on to these beauties...........all 100k, might top up again if funds are released.....i still feel someone is stakebuilding.

[johnswan193] 14/2/2008 19:05

"13.02.08 :+0.4, (6.9) Goldman Sachs has upgraded Vernalis PLC to 'buy' from 'neutral', while keeping its 13 pence price target on the stock, according to traders. In a note today, the broker said it sees significant near-term upside to the stock -- which it adds to its conviction buy list -- as management clarifies the future strategy of the business, in its view. It said it thinks this is most likely to occur by the time of the full-year results presentation, expected around March. The broker's price target offers 120% potential upside, it added, as it said it thinks the market is pricing in a worst-case scenario. But Goldman Sachs said should Vernalis' management secure an arrangement with Endo Pharmaceuticals ensuring cash into 2009-2010, or demonstrate a willingness to consider other strategic alternatives, this would also lift the shares, in its view. Further still, the broker said it thinks there are a number of assets which management could exploit to strengthen its balance sheet further and, should this happen, it would expect the shares to re-rate. However, a downside risk could be a renegotiation of the Endo Pharmaceuticals loan not being possible, or being completed on unsatisfactory terms for investors, it added."

[jwoolley] 14/2/2008 17:28

Nobody will bid for this at the moment...

[quraishim] 14/2/2008 16:54

It took whole day for the order to be filled...1 million buy order just appeared now.........I am in the opinion is that somebody is adding to his stake for a bid I feel an RNS will appear about this holding.

[quraishim] 14/2/2008 14:38

it makes no hoot whether chancer pumps or otherwise....ver will move north at its own accord..........so guys dont need your one liners here.....

[jwoolley] 14/2/2008 14:36

If you guys have got problems with each other, I suggest you take it else where.

[jwoolley] 14/2/2008 14:35

If you guys have got problems with each other, I suggest you take it else where.

[chancer6] 14/2/2008 14:31

That guy is a sick idiot - trashed the DNK thread and the price rose by 100%.

[joeblogg1000] 14/2/2008 14:29

8Trad. I am not sure of others but have only noticed recent ones which have done well but most on here have had a bad experience with Brit Bio/Vernalis that we need some good news from the company.