Orchid Developments Share Discussion Threads

[knigel] 15/12/2012 21:39

I could forward it to anyone if it is of any use still? (for reference purposes)

[knigel] 15/12/2012 21:39

Markt, I had to ask Hargreaves Lansdown for the documentation - hence why I voted.

[markt] 15/12/2012 21:31

...hmmmm...not so sure that it matters much...since the vote is decided, and is finished imo.....
and co. is now in wind up situation...

[bumpkinroll] 15/12/2012 21:30

markt - checking, I do not have VI's details, only their holding - can you post again please or email me [e-mail]


thanks

[markt] 15/12/2012 21:29

Bump/jack
one initiative which I think the action group could prepare for

is to consider whether it wants to stump up hard cash to buy any of the assets, such as the land assets ...instead of a % of these assets being given to the dirs. since OCH can not pay them cash for their salaries/debts.

I would assume that PIs would not want to but worth considering imo...

for example the recent land allocated to the dirs. in Nov. for debt of 100-200kE
....perhaps it could be worth X5 or X10 at the next building cycle...and hence worth giving the dirs. cash (by raising new cash from shareholders) and getting the land asset.....
but many PIs would not want the hassle perhaps...
----

and also actn group trying to pressure the IIs and administrator to hardball the dirs. and obtain a reduction in their claim due to

- desastrous management of OCH (coupled with econ. crisis)
- gross misconduct, not operating the co. for general benefit of all shareholders...offer doc. which was imo an intentional misrepresentation

(generally the IIs and administrator would not want the hassle imo....unless an action group was pushing them...)

[markt] 15/12/2012 21:11

interesting idea !
but I dont think prof. administrators are into stuff like running raffles !

the house in spain raffle runs I think on the principle of maybe 1 house per month, whereas OCH has shed loads of apartments and offices to get rid of.
but who knows, if run in Eastern EUrope and Russia, maybe it could get rid of a few...

-----

In any case, imo the control of the company is now the creditors since it is not a going concern...not the board of directors....
and the creditors will appoint an administrator(s)

take X days to happen I guess

imo we cant take over from the administrator unless we pay the debt to the dirs. and any other short term creditors etc etc....imo 3-4M euros...and imo shareholders are not willing to do this (94M new shares at 4p each)

[jack1236] 15/12/2012 21:10

markt

I want to find out if all the shareholders received the documentation to vote
'yes' or 'no' to resolution (1) and (2), apparently the broker hadn't received
that information when I called and haven't received it since, look at the 'low' numbers who voted.

[bumpkinroll] 15/12/2012 21:10

timtim - very early days yet, but we should have a clearer picture by end of business on monday.

[bumpkinroll] 15/12/2012 21:08

Thanks Markt - I have all of the II's contacts, I think. I'll target VI 1st.

[timtim5449] 15/12/2012 21:07

You all have worked hard I thank you all there would of only been one outcome otherwise it is amazing what can be achieved.:)

[bumpkinroll] 15/12/2012 21:02

markt, thanks for the feedback. We urgently need the right legal advice to advise on these matters but, getting a controlling share, if the II's played ball, which there is a chance of, would stop guy & ofer in their tracks.

Jack just emailed me a very informative doc - will post here once he approves.

[markt] 15/12/2012 21:02

Bump
if you are looking for e-mail addresses for IIs, some were posted maybe 2 weeks ago by someone

the contact details for VI Ltd I posted, but I had no e-mail address....(but address, phone no. fax. number....).....if you have a London person/contact that can go and meet him that would be ideal imo....

if you can make contact with VI Ltd owner and he is supportive...then maybe he can do the work of introducing the PI group to the table, if there is a meeting and IIs are invited...might be easier that way...

[loverat] 15/12/2012 20:45

I do not suppose that SC is here out of any concern for shareholders so unless by some miracle he manages to post something of value, I suggest he is ignored.

[markt] 15/12/2012 20:36

Bump
BTW
imo

1) the administrator wont be selected by the exec. dirs. imo
but by a group of the creditors, ie. the banks ...especially the biggest bank lenders for the GM (imo Unicredit, MKB, Raffeisen maybe etc)

2) imo we cant take over OCH !...but its a nice idea (unless we paid off the short term creditors to OCH and allowed OCH to again be a going concern.....infers maybe 3-4ME imo which imo shareholders would not want to put up)

but imo I think an action group can achieve things....such as being represented at any meetings where the IIs are invited. And various other things, including press pressure.
(and avoid that the IIs buy assets on the cheap, with the usual broker statement
' the price was considered to be fair and reasonable for shareholders'
----a statement that imo is frequently fraudulently used (since it suits the parties involved except the shareholders who dont get asked !)

(and if the administrator thinks there is a large action group watching his every decision....he is more likely imo to make sure that he acts in a fair and honest way. An administrator imo often does not really care is sells asset X for 100 units or 85 units, not his money, he just wants to get the overall job done)

[jack1236] 15/12/2012 20:36

Gain control of the company then each month run a raffle, a lottery etc there are quite a few different ways of disposal, in fact, could be quite profitable.

[bumpkinroll] 15/12/2012 20:33

SC - BTW, due to the small number of shares in OCH, that is exactly why we have a chance here, fact!

[jack1236] 15/12/2012 20:29

Even after the directors met the institutions on the 6th Dec and had a very good idea how they were going to vote, the company released a meaningless RNS.
There are probably other examples, that's how they got their initial 30%.

[markt] 15/12/2012 20:28

BTW
the pre-EGM action group of around 5%....did send messages to 3 national newspapers.....as far as I can see no article printed (but, they perhaps prefer not to print in the run up to an EGM since it is a legal process and want to avoid interfering....)....but now the press are free imo to 'join in' !

---

(the press published shareholder moans for MWB, another property company with dubious director actions......most directors now gone)

[jack1236] 15/12/2012 20:25

Good Bump, you got my e-mail.

[bumpkinroll] 15/12/2012 20:24

loverat - excellent, very good point - the press will love this in the current 'hate the big boys market'

anybody with a PR background in the group?

[bumpkinroll] 15/12/2012 20:21

markt, thanks for your post & I agree, value investments are on the top of my list, but we need more of them.

PRIORITES IMO:

1) legalise the pooled shares - this will mean each shareholder signing over to the action group - we need a lawyer to format this in a way that the group is happy with obvious caveats
2) legalise the group as a commercial entity
3) at the same time as the above, we pitch to the II's along the lines of:
a) join our group as we have majority shareholding after guy & ofer with the intention of gaining more than 30% in order to get controlling share & seize control of the company
b) as an option, we then appoint the Administrator NOT guy & ofer (imo they have this already lined up in their obvious favour for asset disposal)
c) unlikely, but you never know - auction the hotel as debt free to create operating cash flow by end of jan & appoint new directors to manage the asset sales over the next 12 months.

BUT, before we get too excited, we very urgently need to get the legal stance of our group wrapped up & II's feedback in, pronto.

Are you guys inline with thee above?

[markt] 15/12/2012 20:20

Jack
Valuations part 2.

Orchid Gdns
is valued imo at cost to make it
approx. 30ME including approx. 10ME for the land I think
and 20ME debt.

with imo 20ME to make it....imo it must be fairly basic inside..no marble tops in the apartments !..since the cost per m2 for construction is so low

----

Could a pension fund or bank or similar be interested to buy 50% of it, or the offices or the apartments....that produces a profit for OCH shareholders and pays off the debt of 20ME while still leaving shareholders owning some % of the building ? I dont know.

I understand that banks are not lending at the moment in Bulgaria for big ventures (and OCH going into administration would not encourage them !)....so there are few possible buyers....but you never know....

fire sale, so any buyer would probably want a bargain...unless there is more than 1 buyer....
I understand there are various building projects for sale in Bulgaria and Romania....at fire sale prices...
---

At least with a wind up we have a real chance to get something back imo.....if had kept operating OCH and paying workers, AIM costs, dirs. 600kE + expenses, ....then any un used assets would just reduce and reduce especially if the dirs. take assets instead of their pay (as they wanted)....

and imo the dirs. proved that they were incompete or at least unable to make money for shareholders, from 139p down to 2p.....so best to get rid of them, would have been better if it had happened at 40p imo ....

[knigel] 15/12/2012 20:18

I will email AT to ascertain if he will join advfn and (if ok) forward the relevent email address to him re providing access to sensitive info. Will email u later once back home