Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Orchid Developments Group LSE:OCH London Ordinary Share KYG6791P1072 ORD EUR0.01
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  +0.00p +0.00% 1.875p 0.00p 0.00p - - - 0 06:30:09
Industry Sector Turnover (m) Profit (m) EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap (m)
Real Estate Investment & Services 10.3 0.2 -0.2 - 1.76

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Date Time Title Posts
22/3/201517:53Orchid Developments 2012 Thread9,611
26/1/201412:06ONLY for action group posts173
19/12/201215:35Markt posts157
04/12/201218:38ONLY to vote YES or NO to the resolutions in EGM9
02/12/201216:13Proposed new EGM & Capital Raising232

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markt: Timtim From the FT past. I AM SURE WE WILL FIND A WAY!!! GUY WORDS not mine. "We're one of the only international developers that are still active in the country," ---- imho... sadly these words mean nothing....from the view of a SHAREHOLDER at the end of the is the numbers that matter... if a company can not keep any creditors happy then the creditors may/will take the assets of the company....leaving nothing for shareholders OCH can not pay its directors (mega salaries, bleeding OCH dry) not workers nor contractors. (ref. offer document) You can choose to believe words given to the press, or the words given in the offer document. (and the offer doc. is a load of rubbish anyway, misrepresentation of the truth imo) ---- Note, dirs. can buy the company for peanuts or for their salaries.....and maybe they can get some money back from OCH....and maybe they can continue to operate the K company that provides the cafes in the GM and perhaps manage the GM and manage Orchid Gdns and the hotel (because the bankers will still need someone to act as managers if they take over any assets).... doesnt mean that you as an OCH shareholder would get any piece of the pie ! if offer process goes ahead....then most assets will be in hands of the 2 dirs...not yours ---- The dirs. recently lent money to OCH ....and secured the loan by a first mortgage on OCH land. in case no one understands.....that means that that land is no longer owned by you the owned by the directors. that land may 'continue' dirs. said to the Times...but you as a shareholder would have no part of it Sadly it seems that few, or none (except me and 1 or 2 others) appear able to understand the offer document and other news text. (if you complain 6 or 12 months later, be too late) ---- SFI Group was a lovely company....great record of profit growth.....rampant share price.... in the end the creditors took the company and shareholders got zero. Many similar cases. Lesson ? Take care with words. Believe real cash sent back to you or "real" profits (NOT OCH dcf calculations !) or real cash supporting a share price !
markt: BTW Imho the situation at OCH is not uncommon for listed property companies !! It looks to me like the situation at Inland Homes (INL) is very similar to OCH. - Excessive or very high director salaries -excessive bonuses - excessive IPO valuation - excessive value apportioned in the IPO to the existing assets of the company (well, that is largely the investors fault, unless the IPO doc. is misleading, sadly 90-100% of IPO documents are misleading imo, and give a very optimistic image of the company and its future. The regulators belong to the brokers, dont forget !) - annual accounts with little or no information in the important parts, keeping shareholders in the dark There is a recent critical article from Investors Champion. Hopefully they dont mind me copying some snippets here. Investors Champion, great website, you really should visit it ! (I get articles, pdf files from them at no cost. much appreciated, thanks.) here is are snippets from their excellent article about Inland Homes, many similarities to the continual demise/fall of OCH since its IPO "We have learned that shareholders at Inland Homes are preparing to question the trading performance and Directors remuneration at the forthcoming AGM. We have taken a closer look at Inland and have unearthed some interesting facts about the value of its shares and their apparent "loss of value"." "In addition to this they were also entitled to a number of very generous benefits and an annual discretionary bonus, up to a maximum of 100% of basic salary. While one can be critical of the generosity of the remuneration package, especially for a business so small, it was there in black and white for all to read right from the outset. This also pails into insignificance compared with the equity stake that had been engineered from private company to listed status for a relatively small cash outlay and for little of true value being added". "This suggests a 'real' loss in value in net asset terms of only 20% which compares with the share price fall of over 60%. The 'gap' in value is effectively largely represented by that premium uplift on IPO - the shares were simply too expensive in the first place!" SAME AT OCH imho. "- Pre-ipo valuation Prior to the AIM flotation the value per share of this small untested business rose swiftly from 10p to 35p and then to 50p over 18 months. It's hard to justify the 42% uplift from 35p to 50p when clearly so much was still in progress. One wonders what questions new shareholders asked of management before investing" same at OCH imo "Despite this business being all about the future 'potential' and with only a limited trading history a pre-ipo value of £33.58m was achieved when the net assets were only £14m, an uplift of over £20m." Same, well worse, at OCH imo. (OCH IPO valued 5M of NAV (16M assets and 11M debt) at 40M ! and raised 18M, to have cap of approx.60M) (there's a fool born every minute imho !, many of them bought into the OCH IPO !) --- "only 6 lines of narrative can be linked to this £43.8m; by comparison one whole page is devoted to 'charity work'. Until investors are provided with the composition of this figure it's surely very difficult to value this business with any accuracy!" same at OCH imo. "In addition to this they were also entitled to a number of very generous benefits and an annual discretionary bonus, up to a maximum of 100% of basic salary. While one can be critical of the generosity of the remuneration package, especially for a business so small, it was there in black and white for all to read right from the outset. This also pails into insignificance compared with the equity stake that had been engineered from private company to listed status for a relatively small cash outlay and for little of true value being added." same at OCH imo. "We appreciate that in the heady days of 2007 many IPO's attracted rich valuations, however, these were largely in respect of businesses that had a longer trading history and had achieved more. In the instance of Inland a great deal of value was attributed to the 'reputation' of the senior management before very little had been achieved with the current business. In management's defence, although funds had been secured before the financial crisis took hold, the market environment obviously then deteriorated substantially and commitments had already been made for land purchases." "Hopefully more will be revealed to those attending the (Inland Homes) AGM on 27th November, it's likely to be eventful!"
roughandtumbleone: Dear all. It's not normal practice to re post emails that have been received but I think it's important to also take on board what else is being stated and considering this is directly from Guy himself. It would be a very dangerous game to make the statements he has below, if the statements were inaccurate, or completely untrue. The ramifications are huge if information had been shared with the sole purpose of misleading. Clearly there will be those that cast dispersions on what is written below but there is one very serious point that needs to be understood (see my questions below that state such a point). Without raising funds, OCH can't continue as a going concern and the actual reality is liquidators will "foresale" assets - fact. With the proposed resolutions, the company has stated there will be sufficient funding until November 2013, giving them 12 months to find asset buyers and not having to "firesale" properties. Reading what Guy has stated below and from today's announcement, it appears that the process has already started with the Business Centre and will continue with other Orchid's assets. OCH do have two major jewels being the GM and Orchid Gardens and I also understand the GM has increased in occupancy again - I'd like to see an announcement regarding this too. I hope this information is useful and you will see below I have questioned the motivations behind the 2009 "bonus" and "salaries". I've also asked Guy regarding the II's who they are meeting on the 6th and 7th December in London. I believe the II's have a slightly different view to MarkT's revolution. Kind regards, R&T > On 29 Nov 2012, at 11:14, Guy wrote: > >> xxxxx >> Thank you for your response, first I hope everything is well with your family. >> >> Regarding a meeting, I will be happy to meet you in London We will be there december the 6 and 7 half day. (Meetings organized by shore capital) >> >> Regarding your questions >> We proposed in case of a cash flow issue, to defer payment or to get shares instead, and that on top of the cash investment committed by us up to 1.7m (new cash) if necessary to close the minimum requirement. That is a big statement of confidence from our side. >> >> Regarding the 2009 bonus what we have got out of it is 1/3 as a pending debt to us and 2/3 in shares at 20p which mean at today price less than 1/10 of the value and in shares value today only 100,000. So in total '0' cash, for 7 years of work when our share price achieved in the past 178p and we had shareholders who double their investment and realize it. And creating one of the landmarks in Bulgaria the Grand Mall a 160,000 Sam development in a middle of worldwide crises. >> No other bonus were given, we have participate in all fund raising done by the company the last one we bought shares at 139p and we have never sold a single share since inception. >> So no one can claim that we played unfair. >> >> I agree, we are in process of selling the assets as announced in the past, but we can do it correctly when on the other hand the shares are suspended base on a cash flow business and announce that, if the company will not raise new funds the company can't continue to operate. >> All our career is in the real estate business, being a specialist too you knowing the area, what you will do if you want to buy one of our properties? >> You will just wait or propose a ridiculous offer knowing that if we do not accept the company will go bust. >> >> Some of the shareholders don't understand, that if the company will enter a liquidation process, as warned in the open offer announcement, in case both resolution are voted down, the outcome of a process most probably end up with almost zero or paying the liquidators fees. >> >> We are both Ofer and me optimistic, we are developers who are proud of Orchid developments and the fact that against the wind (strong one) we did not only survive, when all others went bust around us, we still improving them while we enter the realization process. >> >> With this optimistic note, I will appreciate your support. >> >> Don't hesitate to contact me >> >> Guy >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my BlackBerry® >> >> On 29 Nov 2012, at 10:13, xxxxxxx wrote: >> >>> Guy, >>> >>> I just want underline the fact my questions are borne from wanting OCH to succeed. I've invested a lot of money in your company and hope you take the time to respond fully. >>> >>> As I stated, I'm also prepared to travel to meet you and Ofer. >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> >>> xxxxxxx. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 28 Nov 2012, at 14:19, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: >>> >>>> Dear Guy, >>>> >>>> I apologise for the delay in getting back to you, we have had some family issue to deal with. >>>> >>>> As a fellow Board Member, I have to believe your and Ofer's motivations are genuine and honest. I've read many announcements from OCH regarding returning "shareholder value" but in reality I've only witnessed share value destruction. As you have stated to me in previous communications, I too think it was a mistake not to have raised funds when Orchid's share price was over 10p but as you stated you were badly advised. >>>> >>>> Maybe you would consider this situation for me and comment accordingly. >>>> >>>> 1)In the interest of reducing "cash burn" and sending a clear statement to the markets, Ofer and yourself pay freeze yourselves for 12 months with no claw back, share option or recourse...purely in the best interest of the company and its shareholders. This message would actually (in my opinion) demonstrate your belief and determination to turn the situation around. >>>> >>>> 2)The bonus set from 2009 revaluation of the GM is not in the best interest of shareholders. This 'bonus' situation arose from the increased valuation of the Grand Mall by Colliers and in reality was just a paper exercise. If MBL reduced the value by 30m you and Ofer aren't under a payback scheme. Again, in the interest of shareholder value and credibility, surely even you can see this 'debt' loan is ridiculous. >>>> >>>> 3)being from a major property background I would like to see a public and visible asset sale. The hotel, land, cinemas, business centre could be auctioned (not fire sale) through Jones Lang/ CBRE and the monies raised could be significant. The GM is OCHs jewel in the crown, as is Orchid Gardens. I'm not prepared to allow such assets to vanish, particularly as I invested on the back of the potential and the back of these assets and your assurances. >>>> >>>> I'm happy to fly to Israel, Bulgaria or meet in London if appropriate? >>>> >>>> Kind regards, >>>> >>>> xxxxxxx. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >
markt: I am willing to send a message ..since I am quite motivated at the moment about this subject !...or a friend of mine may write it since good with words... and it may use less of my time....rather than trying to co-ordinate a message from a group..... ---- Do people agree with the points made in the header of this thread ? (people have given their votes to form a group....but we haven't had much discussion so far...) (I can see that Thaarg is on the same opinion as me...and Knigel is keen for something to happen...) ---- Please note BONUS ISSUE I am very much in favour of divesting the assets in the 2 divisions with no debt to existing OCH shareholders. Pro rata, with no reqt. to subscribe for any new shares. The hotel and land divisions already exist as companies, registered in Bulgaria and then Cayman Islands. I propose that the shares in those 2 companies are transferred from OCH group PLC to existing OCH shareholders. Zero cost. A bonus issue. ---- HOTEL. 5,7ME claimed value. 0 Debt. If the hotel can be sold in 2013, eg. spring. 1 A share in the co. and 94 million B shares. Each OCH shareholder receives 1 B share in the hotel company in Cayman islands for the 1 OCH share they own. Then the B shares can be tendered for cancellation when the hotel is sold, in return for cash (minimises tax liability). The new buyer then owns 1 A share and 100% of the hotel. (Hence OCH Plc would no longer own the hotel.) LAND held. 10ME value. 0 Debt. The holding co. is registered in Bulgaria and then a co. in Cayman Islands owns that. I propose 1 A share in the co. and 94 million B shares. Each OCH shareholder receives 1 B share in the land company in Cayman islands for the 1 OCH share they already own. Then the B shares can be tendered for cancellation when the land is sold, in return for cash (minimises tax liability). The new buyer then owns 1 A share and 100% of the land. (Hence OCH Plc would no longer own the land.) (personally I think it will be best not to sell the land at the moment, since low price. best to wait till next building boom. The company could even decide to give a license to a builder to build, at his cost, in return for a % of the profit. The land owner then is part developer and is likely to get higher profit. Anyway, a decision for X years in the future). In favour ?
markt: Note the currently proposed issue of 30M shares to directors at 2.25p corrupt imho. If the shareholders subscribe for 96M new shares at 2.25p then the company is saved from administration and can return from suspension. That is expected to produce a jump in the share price. The company is owned by the SHAREHOLDERS and the law requires pro rata issue of new shares. If the directors issue new shares to themselves...then doing it at 2.25p looks corrupt imho. Firstly it should not be allowed, and secondly the price of 2.25p is not fair, ......if the shareholders save the company .....the share price should go up...and if the dirs. want to pocket extra shares for themselves (which I dont agree with, the reqt. of 30% needs to be observed imo, above 30% and so many cases of dirs. then abusing the company.....then they should buy shares in the open market, which will produce RNS news ...and the share price will rise, benefitting the shareholders) Issuing shares to themselves would also be INSIDER DEALING imho, since they know the annual financial data...and the company is currently in a closed period which PROHIBITS that the dirs. buy or sell shares. as a result of these notes, imho I am in favour of REMOVAL of the exec. dirs. 'cuase imho they are trying to use the shareholders assetts for their own personal benefit and breaking numerous regulations along the way (while I note that imho many shareholders are perhaps asleep and do not care what the dirs. do)
markt: BTW the fact that accounts have not been issued would infer that at present OCH is not a going concern and that if they issued accounts they would be forced by the law to go into administration...which would infer I think that the 2 execs. would be unemployed and no longer receive 300K E per year. About 1KE per day. We need to see the monthly cashflow numbers and info on apartments enquiries and sales at Orchid Gdns. If they cant sell apartments then even if raise money then that money will soon be used up in paying interest costs. And despite being forced to suspend the shares.....the shareholders have STILL NOT been given ANY information about current monthly cashflow or Orchid Gdns apartment sales. Hopefully the cash raising paperwork will reveal all, but personally I dont think so !. I think we will be investing blind. While the dirs. and their friends taking up any unexercised shares will know the real situation. And then maybe 2 months later they announce that Shore Capital property fund number 3 has bought all the apartments in Orchid Gdns., producing a profit of X for OCH and removing the debt problems and OCH share price jumps ! making large quick profits for anyone that took up unexercised shares. BTW, imho Shore Capital and their clients will have lost a lot of money in the fall of the OCH share price and I would assume they would be very keen to make some profit to reduce their losses.
markt: Goodness me, some supportive posts. Not so often you see that on msg brds. Thanks. ---- There are -ve and +ve factors to OCH situation and news. In my view the -ve factors include - directors are timing the vote for the cash raising to be at the last minute. imho intentionally giving the shareholders NO option but to vote yes to everything that the directors want. I PROTEST about that. - the dirs. plan to issue more shares than the pro rata shares. This MUST NOT be allowed to happen, unless there are extra shares issued to a new strategic investor to say thank to them for helping OCH, such as buying a chunk of OCH assetts to help it, but in that case, no new share issue would be needed. New shares not pro rata, just for FRIENDS ?. Stinks imo. I say NO. (offer new shares pro rata to shareholders to raise the cash needed, and any unwanted shares are then offerred first to existing shareholders pro rata and ONLY then offerred to non-shareholders. Shareholders have coughed up shed loads of cash to create OCH, if there are any new shares then the pro rata principle must be STRICTLY applied imo....and only in a last resort should new shareholders be able to subscribe. But hey, London is based on the pals principle, and shafting PIs, so probably be the same with OCH ! --- ( I suggest that the large shareholders get together and decide what they want and TELL the directors what to do and what to put in the share issue resoutions !. The shareholders own the company, not the directors) ---- To be clear, I propose that - on the cash raising being successful then the recent loan from directors will be automatically repaid and they will not have a resort to the land specified in recent RNS. (and I propose that the dirs. reveal what was the cost of that land) - a full and detailed list of assetts is presented to shareholders. And the debts linked to those assetts. And the related turnover and operating costs for those. imho the shareholders are in the dark. - the directors MUST NOT be allowed to subscribe for > 30% TOO MUCH POWER FOR DIRECTORS IS A VERY BAD THING. IT MUST NOT HAPPEN. it creates too much incentive for fraud and self benefit. (that the directors already mention that they plan to allow themselves to have > 30%, personally I would remove them now !, smells bad. ) - while the share price is less than 5p, that the directors agree to a reduction in their salary by 50%. Currently I think it is 300K euros x 2 execs = 600k, while cap. value is 1.8M when de-listed. Noting they have lost the shareholders lots of money. The company income is bad. The directors need to align themselves with the shareholders. - the large shareholders should organise for other directors/entities to be ready to be moved in in case the directors do not reveal the real full data about the company or in case the directors propose resolutions which include too much benefits for the directors (there are various listed property companies operating in Bulgaria and investment companies, from mammoths like GE getting new management is easy imo)
markt: "Btw if the 20p stock issuance to the BoD as "payment" in lieu of services was at the then "true" share price the issuance would have been many multiples than original and total shares issued much greater than present - a complete red herring!" In case anyone is interested in my view... the "payment" or bonus was false imho.....imho no real profit of X millions was made, was it 30M....the bonus was a few millions if I remember.. the share price then and ever since shows that no mega profit was made..... by producing new valuations of assetts you can report a yearly profit up or down as you choose.... and surprise surprise....the year after the big bonus.....a big loss was reported....nett result....close to nil....inferring that no bonus for performance was really due, imho anyway a big bonus when the company is at its lowest ever share price ? close to 2p...when raised cash from investors around 100p ....does not make sense imo.... ---- imo the reason for the 20p price for the bonus was because big shareholders would imo asked for the replacement of the exec. dirs. if they have taken it as cash or at the market share price Why ? Because they funded the around 100p per if the dirs. had put it in their pockets at 4p per share ....taking control of the company with well over 30% of company....and basically saying " up yours" to the big shareholders....they would not have accepted it. The PIs with 50k -100k shares each are irrelevant imo..(partly because many do not vote, and they are not a block vote)...the holders of over 3% each still have a high total % of the votes and still have a lot of power imo....the dirs. have to work for them. --- Will the dirs. take control of the company on the cheap at some time in the future.....hopefully not...we dont know the future for sure. They promised improved provision of information...and imo shareholders are as much in the dark now as they have ever been. Financial situation of the company. Secret. We dont know. Future cashflow situation month per month showing cash balance versus debt payments...we dont know. What are they trying to sell to raise cash. We dont know. The RNS states cash situation is bad...hence low share price. In any case, Im still holding...but I wish I had more information.... (a cynic may argue that poor level of information ...allows friends or any possible company helper etc to buy at low help them..if so then it is a good sign !)
markt: ...and what a ride....I could have sold at 15p after buying at 4-5p not long before.....but hoping that it was the start of something I held on....from 15p to 1.5p, a quick 10 bagger in negative direction.....pah. ------ any case.....shareholders continue to be in the dark.....what is the financial situation ?....we dont know.... what possibilities are the directors looking at....again we are told nothing.....the promised improvement in communications has never materialised imho.. (but one can imagine or calculate some numbers......75 apartments unsold at Varna Hills....OCH is having to finance the debt on those apartments...and I assume some costs, like security....and some advertising costs...) (easy to see that for any developer....if you make X % if sell everything quickly after finishing construction.....that the X% paper gain quickly gets eaten up if you still have unsold stock on your books with no gain and still costing you money....clearly the market is still bad....otherwise OCH would have off loaded imho those apartments (although the loan ring fencing maybe changes the approach)) ---- What will happen ? Will shareholders make some money back ?.....or maybe the exec. dirs. buy control, de-list the company.....and then relax running the Mall...and the cafe license...and any opportunities.....while clocking up their high salaries..... The property market slump is the main reason for OCH share price fall.....but the poor communication to shareholders ...and the strategy to develop Orchid Gardens even though the company already knew that it had cash problems....well that is all down the 2 exec. dirs imo. ....the share price fall.....and that large holder did not want to stump up more cash ....perhaps show the HIGH lack of confidence of the market in the exec. dirs. Will the future prove that the dirs. did the right things.....time will tell.....but not looking good at present.....same as for the last X months.
markt: ...goodness me.... OCH is now my highest value holding in my SIPP....I didn't expect that.... average was 5p....and just picked up a few more.... trending in the right direction.....and risk/reward still looks worthwhile imo....while it still has risks.... 800k euros income from the Sofia property sales ..doesn't generate much or any profit imo...but gives some cash to pay existing interest costs on other projects if BOD wants to use it.. and the value of the land at 800k has probably been underpinned by the neighbouring project being fully sold......(but I see no point in developing it in current poor sales market in Bulgaria) --- The BOD know that increasing the % occupied at the Mall will have big impact on its value and hence OCH share price..(they hold 30%) so I am hoping that they will declare at some time that signed up more renters.... ...perhaps they even offer some discount for first year to get new renteres signed up....or some other deal...imo the market won't care, as long as it sees the % occupied head hopefully towards 100%. Risks from debts...still there 800kEuros from Sofia sales (wasn't Varna ;-) ) ....if can obtain some sales of other properties...then some cash can be generated to pay bank loans. There are various possibilities for doing 'deals'....some of which I can think of.....a property person would probably know many more....hopefully something may be announced at some time. Spring is arriving, or will soon'ish. Busiest time of year for property maybe OCH can sell some apartments in Varna.... and Bulgaria will look a lot more appealling to any bidders for the Mall imo once the ice and snow has gone....and some sun comes out.....and hopefully Greece debt problems will be a few weeks/months behind us. And USA will continue is economic growth and rise of mkt indices.....hopefully creating more interest in stock markets and shares and risk.
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