Orchid Developments Share Discussion Threads

[derektrade33] 15/12/2012 17:27

Guys, I'm going to hold my hands up here and say I'm way out of my depth in terms of knowledge in this situation. As I know we all want the same thing I am happy to do whatever the action groups sees as the best option. If there is anything I can do for us I will. But bottom line is I'm just following you guys, kind of the same way I got into this mess. Nothing wrong with a bit of honesty, right? Bump, I'm emailing you now so u have my address.

[jack1236] 15/12/2012 17:09

bump - 556000
jack - 200000
thai - 1035000
tim - 500000
tax - 420000
joe - 2200000
markt - 120000
red - 75000
Awkward T 250000 lse
Beginner - 200000
chris - 19500 lse
Frankg - 150000
JREwing - 150000
volkeal - 60000
loverat - 20000
simon - 400000
knige l- 576000
2Gkekko - 20000
vuss - 40000
markk - 69237
kevin1962 - 657500
Investor8 - 20000 lse
dsmit - 56056 lse
emmah97699 - 7000 lse
R & T - 1966900
Bob23 - 120000 lse
derektrade33 - 77778
brickytoon - 100000
superwoof - 50000
golikethewind - 40100
greedfear - 500000
skeeter252 - 150000 lse
Thaaarg - 220000
stoop - 82000
nicklaroche - 600000
Rogerdoger - 100000 lse
DTScooby - 53000
cuttingmam - 65000
1MB - 160000
stillwaiting - 12400
jeremiah99 - 87000 lse
72nov - 13098
linslader - 25000
the troll - 75000
nb12 - 47000 lse
*Handyghandi - lse
Trigger Blade - 46131
allin22 - 40027
Leekhan - 240292
tentigers - 108344 lse

a) possible shareholdings - Celeritas and ihavenoclue and comedy and sapper
c) dsmit - Just registered ochactiongroup.co.uk and will set up a mailing list for us all later :)
d) jack speaking to lawyers mon/tue - got a very good idea - but no promises.
e) Bump/Rough drafting letters/speaking to institutions, also speaking to AST action group for advice on setting up 'the Action Group'.
f) Imo the action group should align itself with Terence Smith of Value Investments Ltd, (FSA registered, experienced, works in the city etc) if there are now 13% in action group and VI has 4%, then that is 17% total.

Total Shares in Issue - 93,966,260

Grand Total - 12780363

We've got more then 13.60%

[knigel] 15/12/2012 16:29

Mark i did listen, did vote the correct way and did email the fsa.

[markt] 15/12/2012 16:27

Bump/Jack
Well done for recent organising/work ...posts...and achieving much bigger % etc etc

[bumpkinroll] 15/12/2012 16:24

Guys, will not be posting the draft letter on here to the II's as OCH will be reading these posts, most likely. We need to keep such matters confidential at this stage.

Those you want to see it & comment/adjust, please email me on [e-mail] - any personal emails will be treated in confidence & bcc'd on the group email reply.

[markt] 15/12/2012 16:21

Action group
Bump, what is the overall plan of what you want to achieve, or is it best to wait to see your message to the IIs ?
IIs will also be working to see that the dirs. do not run off with the assets !
and have lawyers and know the rules etc...and they are free...

but be great to have a voice at the table, be part of whatever happens, via a group...

meetings on 6th Dec. with IIs, we were not invited.

BTW, some messages were sent to the IIs by the 5% action group that we had before the EGM...but the IIs didnt want to get involved with a PI group of 5% (they didnt need the 5% of votes)....but the points identified to the IIs did possibly help to influence how the IIs voted.

Imo the action group should align itself with Terence Smith of Value Investments Ltd, (FSA registered, experienced, works in the city etc) if there are now 13% in action group and VI has 4%, then that is 17% total.
He may be already posting on the msg brd. ! He was previously invited......

[markt] 15/12/2012 16:14

So, imo, the dirs. will need 1.5ME- 2ME to settle their claims. (see previous post)

Perhaps even up to 2.6ME if the capitalisation shares are paid out, which by contract they have to be (unless a legal case proved that no 30ME profit existed in 2009, ie. that it was a trick/con).

But better to pay off the dirs. now and hopefully get some cash back from the remaining assets than agree to the new share issue and see the dirs. own up to 73% of OCH and OCH assets. From 27% of the assets shareholders would get peanuts or nothing in any wind up....whereas at least now we have a chance imo.

The land and hotel are given as a value of around 17ME in the offer doc. with no debt.

If say that true value is 10ME and not 17ME then
10ME- 2ME (for dirs) = 8ME for shareholders
another 1 or so ME would go from this to pay off the capitalisation shares (I have not checked in detail)

so maybe shareholders could get 6-7ME


or if 8ME
then 8-2 = 6ME. -1 = 5ME

But there are other debtors...such as OCH PLC workers, AIM cost, auditor of accounts, administrator, office costs, any constructor or supplier with contract with OCH PLC and not with a division. Total debt = X ?

Dirs. have put in their claim within hours....this infers imo that the situation for cash is not pretty ! (we knew anyway, since lent the co. 100k-200kE only weeks ago, I assume to pay office staff...)
---

imo with a prof. administrator the shareholders have a chance to receive something....with the dirs. we would imo have no chance to receive anything.
..so I am happy that the share offer has not happened.

----

These numbers indicate imo that a distribution of assets of 4p/share could be easily possible. This is rough estimate only, a 'principle' type calculation. And shareholders would still own real assets at Varna Hills and Sofia Hills. imo there is no net asset value in the GM. For Orchid Gdns I dont know, depends if any buyers, how many and at what price.

[timtim5449] 15/12/2012 16:08

Very well done very body so far it is great, lets work together know snips etc, glad to see you are here too Markt you have a lot of energy. Keep going keep going. Great!! at last we will get some where with OCH. well done all.

[bumpkinroll] 15/12/2012 16:05

Just spoken to a good friend of mine who is a lawyer & was one of the top dogs at HSBC law dept last year - he has recommended a lawyer friend in the city.

Before I email him, Jack I need to discuss your plans on Monday with your lawyer contact - could you give me a rough outline on my email over the wkend? - as I want to email him tomorrow night so that he's got it 1st thing Monday.


Cheers

[tax dodge] 15/12/2012 16:02

Well done mark you are a hero.

[markt] 15/12/2012 16:00

Sadly, BTW, 'you' will imo have to pay the dirs. cash for the bonus capitalisation shares that 'you' voted to give them back in Feb.

If there was a pay out at 2p then I think the payout is 20p-2p. ie. 18p per share.

Fair amount of cash.

This will be money that will NOT be going to you.....and is imo additional to the money that the dirs. have just claimed (around 700k I think and there is 600k more for 12 months notice and 600k debt from 2009 money not paid, 1.5ME-2ME imo)

Well, 'you' did vote 'yes' in Feb !!

I voted NO, I think I was about the only person.
(a legal case could perhaps argue that there was in fact no profit of 30ME made in 2009)

[bumpkinroll] 15/12/2012 15:54

Have written to the AST action group asking for advice on legal matters - if they have gone through something similar we would really benefit from their knowledge.

Will update with any response on this.

Working on the draft to the II's & will post tonight.

[markt] 15/12/2012 15:53

"KNIGEL 15 Dec'12 - 15:43 - 9204 of 9205 0 0

Lets be fair MarkT has.made 90% of the posts over the last month and i hope he stays involved"


Be quite ironic if I wasnt involved.....

....since imho it has been me has led you all to the opinions that you now have.

Yes me.

(and imho I told you all back in Feb. when the subject of the 'false' bonus and new shares for the dirs.

Its taken many months for you all to 'cotton on' but I guess that is normal, for a ship to change direction takes time)
---

Anyway, an action group of PIs. Excellent.

[bumpkinroll] 15/12/2012 15:48

GLTW - to early to guess what we could achieve - getting control is going to be a major hurdle & that needs to be the primary focus at this stage.

[markt] 15/12/2012 15:47

If a shareholder group is going to perhaps consider putting up money to get assets instead of the dirs. getting them in leui of their pay....

then the following is the first bit of land to go for imo !


"Regulated Land Plot XIV - 1190, situated in the city of Sofia, Region Studentski, quarter 7, area Vitosha VEZ Simeonovo, which comprises the land designated by the Company for the future development of phase 2 of Orchid Hills Sofia."

(since the dirs. went for it.....it identifies it as worth having imo !

I dont trust the dirs. at all.....but imo they are sharp !, sadly too sharp and too concerned with lining their own pockets)

[knigel] 15/12/2012 15:43

Lets be fair MarkT has.made 90% of the posts over the last month and i hope he stays involved

[golikethewind] 15/12/2012 15:40

Forgive me for asking, i know i only have a small amount compared to others, but what are the proposals of the consortium if succesful of control? Where would it go from here?

[tax dodge] 15/12/2012 15:24

Mark join us and play the game or go your own way.

All together it's the only way it will work.

If the gm has no equity give it back to the bank, all assets are ring fenced.

[bumpkinroll] 15/12/2012 15:24

markt - we need to ascertain who has the right skills for the required roles here - will hopefully discuss the detail with R&T by Monday am over the phone.

We need to also keep personal swipes to ourselves as this will help nobody or the cause at this stage.

[markt] 15/12/2012 15:23

The following is a very good idea imo.

...PIs need imo to make sure that the dirs. do not get awarded any valuable assets at a crazy knock down price to cancel any debts to them


"greedfear 15 Dec'12 - 10:54 - 9170 of 9199 0 0

...., maybe it's an idea to get ii's interested in incorperating an entity with us that would make an offer on OCH assets if they were to be auctioned/liquidated.
It would improve chances of getting a "fair" price for those assets."

[markt] 15/12/2012 15:15

wow, all these new posters that own shares coming out of the woodwork
and someone has contact with a lawyer in London
and setting up a website for action group

sounds very positive

-----

(Jack, small point, I have around 160k shares , not 120k)

[markt] 15/12/2012 15:06

bumpkinroll 14 Dec'12 - 20:14 - 9064 of 9196 0 0

R&T - surely you want in on this? + we need your commercial property expertise.


RU sure !?
...he thinks the GM really is worth 137ME !

(an 8% yield, common in property sector, but can be 5-15%
makes it around 70-80ME, well less than the debt on it)