Kier Share Discussion Threads

[bathboy2] 20/5/2021 08:33

Kier's debt regardless of what is left after the sale of KL and equity raise, will always be their ball and chain, the current supplies issues and the subsequent knock on effect will leave most companies under pressure, even if they have no debt, construction is and always will be high risk, low margin work, the new management have done well to keep it going, but the legacy issues massive and the company may well survive, but it will only just earn enough to pay wages, pensions etc, dividends are a distant dream, and the share price is still being played with by MM's and PI's get suckered in, dreams of riches, i may be wrong and will gladly admit it, if in 3 months time the share is around the price today, i believe it will be less

[wallywoo] 20/5/2021 07:37

All you need to do is look at Kier's intangible assets. (£704m). In 2013 that was only around £20m. They made 3 large acquisitions since then. Profit, cash generation and pension payments have drained cash ever since. It's still a huge weight to carry, they will be righting off those over payed for assets for years to come.

[stutes] 20/5/2021 07:06

hxxps://www.constructionenquirer.com/2021/05/19/john-laing-sold-to-private-equity-firm-for-2bn/

The purchase of Laing property business by Kier sometime ago made me think - how many businesses bought by K over the years actually made a medium to long-term return for shareholders?

[wallywoo] 20/5/2021 06:51

Just here to annoy you, Stdy. Of course you won't say if, when and what price you own Kier shares. That's because you are a paid ramper. Who for 2 years has been saying Kier will make you rich, when the share price has fallen and needs more money. Why do you keep being so wrong?? I consider it my civic duty to point out and annoy scammers (and the man who has said 100's of times Kier have no debt problems and have plenty of cash).

Kier has lost £200m a year cash for the last 2. They needed a equity issue or they would be bust. It's the largest I have seen for a fair few years at 175 percent of current equity. There's no guarantee they can generate any cash after it and I expect H2 will be very disappointing.

Peter, a open offer is not a rights issue. Therefore, shareholders cannot sell that right. That's why the share price will hold up until June and tank when they start trading. 80's by July if not before.

[stdyeddy] 19/5/2021 20:46

Peter, you are correct. The shares went 'ex-entitlement' on the 14th and the shares opened, repriced the following day, to reflect the value of the old shares with the 7/8 at 85p. From memory, the chart actually opened at 102p.

[stdyeddy] 19/5/2021 20:38

Wolly, earlier on you said 'we're all here to make money...' but you've admitted that you're not short, and you're also definitely not long. So if everyone else is here to make money, what are you doing here?

[petersw1] 19/5/2021 18:29

Shares bought on the 13th came with the option to take part in the open offer. On the 14th they didn't. A counterparty to a short position would not accept missing out on the profits that option is giving.I've noticed many chart providers have rebased the historic prices at that point.

[wallywoo] 19/5/2021 17:59

Peter, no I don't. However, inflation is a long forgotten economy problem. You have to be old to remember when it caused real problems to companies. It is coming again, and much faster and harder than people think. With building materials hotly forecasted to be hit hard.


I was pointing to another potential issue. With Kier though I quickly run out of fingers!!

Again this is a open issue not a rights issue. There are no rights for it to go XR!!

[petersw1] 19/5/2021 17:05

Wally, do you have any specific reason to believe Kier are unable to properly manage inflation risks?
I note in the recent prospectus they only mention how they handle inflation as a risk for their pension liabilities.
But reading this article:

gives me the impression that considering inflation is a normal part of the contract process.
They should be either passing on the risk to the client or taking on the risk with a suitable cost to the client to compensate for that risk.

[petersw1] 19/5/2021 16:57

You must have made quite a loss then.

If a short position was held when the open offer rights went ex-entitlement the counterparty would want their rights from the shorter.

[wallywoo] 19/5/2021 16:40

No I don't. However I don't believe the share issue would make any difference. There are no rights here to be sold on the open market. It's a open offer. So would not effect a short position, like for instance a XD or XR would.

[petersw1] 19/5/2021 16:25

Wally, do you still have your short position?
If so do you care to aid your credibility and update us as to what effect the Open offer rights have had on said position?
Or do you not care about your credibility amongst those who read more than the latest messages?

[wallywoo] 19/5/2021 16:10

Yep, don't forget inflation. You wouldn't want a £8b order book with 3 percent profit margin and 10 percent materials inflation.Who would invest in that???

[stdyeddy] 19/5/2021 15:38

ftse down almost 2%; dow has opened down 1.5% -- market in a tizz because monetary tightening is coming. Everyone can see it, even if the Fed keeps denying it. Kier got the cash raise done in the nick of time. Ultra-cheap money might be coming to an end.

[stdyeddy] 19/5/2021 15:02

Yes. Wolly has partly achieved his purpose. His main motive is to stop anyone from ever investing in Kier, so keeping up a continuous stream of misinformation and squabbling on here serves his purpose.

I see that wolly admits he has an 'agenda' but he also says now that he wasn't ever short, even though he maintained an ELABORATE LIE, for six months, claiming to increase his short periodically, until he looked SO RIDICULOUS that he then said 'I lost no money...' a few days ago. So if wolly isn't short, and he isn't long, but he's spent every day of the last two years posting lies and scaremongering on here, the obvious question is, why put all that effort in? TWO YEARS OF LYING POSTS!!!

[ali47fish] 19/5/2021 14:07

i can never derive any thing useful from this stining board like children for ever quarrelling

[nomdeplume] 19/5/2021 13:37

Sorry, Wally. Mea Culpa!

[wallywoo] 19/5/2021 13:29

I thought you had a maths degree nom??


284 million new shares. 162.12m existing shares. So just over 175 percent new shares being issued.
You do need to count the firm offer issue too??

284/162.12 X 100

That might not count the 300k odd shares the directors have taken. Not sure.

[ontheforks] 19/5/2021 13:14

Looks like a bad day for shares the ftse100/250 is down again something the negative posters are leaving out I believe August will give a better idea on kier after the dust dies down I think the only thing stopping kier now is dividend and market condition only time will tell good luck longs 👍🏻🍀

[nomdeplume] 19/5/2021 13:13

I thought you said you had GCSE Maths, Wally. At 7 for every 8 existing shares, that is 87% more shares. Not 174% more.

[wallywoo] 19/5/2021 12:36

That's all great Gixxer, but it doesn't detract away from the fact that Kier has been a terrible investment, which was my point.Most posters are looking for a return on their money. They don't work for Kier and IF sensible have no emotional link to them. Emotions and investing should not be mixed IMO.Going forward Kier still have a bumpy road. They will have 174 percent more shares and many more holders to keep happy. They have still to prove that they can generate any cash and rebuild the balance sheet without tapping shareholders again.I have a agenda. With the ridiculous ramping over the last 3 years here there's no point in coming clean and it is much easier to annoy paid rampers by playing them at their own game. But it is based on being real, evaluating whether this ever will make anyone money in the medium term. Kier still have everything to prove on that score. Who says they will not just keep on losing cash.

[gixxer1] 19/5/2021 11:38

Wally. Whilst I have been in the kie Sharesave Scheme since 2010, you are only in it for a period of 3 years at a time and then you can join the subsequent one at the new share Option Price. Whatever they give you as the Option Price at the start of the 3 years (say 85p) is the price you can buy the shares for at the 3 year point, or withdraw your money without losing. Lets say the Option Price originally offered is 85p and over a 3 year period I save £5000 into it. 5000 divided by 85p (the Option price) is 5882, which means I have 5882 shares at the end of the 3 years. I can then buy 5882 shares at whatever the current share price is. So at todays price of say 111, I have made £1529. If the share price is lower, then I just withdraw my £5k. Not much I know and it will never make you a millionaire, but it is something.
And yes I did lose out on the last RI of 409, but on the basis of 'if you are not prepared to lose it, then don't do it', I am ok with that. BTW, I am still a contented kie employee!

[petersw1] 19/5/2021 11:12

highfive, good for you if you can turn a profit trading. I wouldn't call it the only sensible option though. For the many people that consistently lose money trading it isn't a sensible option.

[stdyeddy] 19/5/2021 11:03

No wolly-chops, let's ignore YOU, BECAUSE YOU HAVE BEEN LYING TO EVERYONE ON THIS BOARD CONTINUOUSLY FOR TWO YEARS AND MISLEADING PEOPLE WITH YOUR MALICIOUS SCAREMONGERING. YOU HAVE BEEN PROVEN COMPLETELY WRONG. You are not to be trusted. I sometimes wonder what happened to you wolly. Once upon a time, you were an ordinary investor and then it seems two years ago you turned into a malignant troll, lying brazenly. You are NOTORIOUS here. Everyone knows. There is no point in trying to get chummy with new posters here -- THEY ALL KNOW ABOUT YOU. I am now leaving it to the common sense of everyone here. If they engage with you, they should do it knowing that you are a fraud and a liar.

[pl dil] 19/5/2021 10:58

If you were half as clever as you think you are wally you wouldn’t be arsing around on free bulletin boards. Your just a WUM and not a very good one at that.

Few of you mentioned you were with Hargreaves , instructions now on site on how to apply for open offer and more and takes about a minute to do. If you don’t want any then you do nothing.