Kier Share Discussion Threads

[stutes] 17/9/2021 12:27

K's monthly debt £432m compared to £436m the year before, but what about asset sales and rights issue - how come debt has only dropped £4m?

[stutes] 17/9/2021 10:37

The Times reports on K as a buy. I think chasing turnover without good margin control is a bad thing. Why should any new investor buy K shares when Morgansindall appears to be on rocket fuel -delivering profits and very few or none nasty surprises ? K needs to match MS and that could take time.

[petersw1] 17/9/2021 10:12

Hmm, at 09:52 Wally predicts a fall and then the price rises 0.65%.

[wallywoo] 17/9/2021 09:52

Despite reams and reams of ramping posts, the share price slips down on another good day for the market. Support now broken, next stop 100p. Keep it up guys, you are fooling no one!! (-£262m tangible net assets), by far the worst capitalised builder on the market (all the others are >+£150m). IMO not enough to make any cash and much worse levels than after the last cash raise (it was -£116m then). I would urge any potential investors to compare March 2018 balance sheet and the latest. See how much weaker it is now, and ask yourself if they made no cash then why will they now?

[kierculpa] 16/9/2021 19:56

What motivates people to post here multiple times each day when they have no intention of investing in kie?

[stdyeddy] 16/9/2021 19:34

An important milestone passed today; Kier is in the black. A profit booked and net cash achieved. That's what's important.

[stdyeddy] 16/9/2021 16:56

Less than 0.5% down on the day. I predict a rise tomorrow.

[zicopele] 16/9/2021 16:52

Interesting

[stdyeddy] 16/9/2021 16:37

Order book is apparently at the same level as last year so far, and if we took a pessimistic view in terms of growth and assumed none, despite the massive govt commitments on infrastructure spending (all in core Kier areas) and if we were also pessimistic on margin growth, even though Kier has grown margin in every sector of its business, and assumed only 3%, then we are looking at about £50m for the next six months (which we are almost half-way through) and cash generation of about £45m, so potentially net cash of almost £50m by the end of December. We will know in just 4 months. However, since India and China are apparently ramping up steel production to exploit the global opportunity presented by temporarily higher prices, I think that there will be a rush of new work as prices drop and/or the backlog of work becomes too big to ignore, so I reckon we might be looking at £4bn for the next year, 3.25% margin, and £2bn for the next six months and £55m in profits.

[petersw1] 16/9/2021 16:06

Anyone have any thoughts on what the results for the current half year could look like?

[stdyeddy] 16/9/2021 15:56

The IC upgrade is just the first of many re-rates now. As the market digests the results, we should see broker upgrades coming through.

[stdyeddy] 16/9/2021 15:34

The great result for me was that net debt was actually eliminated and we are at net cash already. I had suggested that this was a possibility but wasn't sure how it would all shake-out, Kier being a complicated animal. Last year net debt was £310m and the incoming cash from the KL sale and the cash raise was about £330m, with an additional £12m on working capital payment for Kier Living. However, Kier also cleared almost all of the deferred taxes (deferred as part of covid support) AND reduced the supplier early-payment scheme (KEPS) by £44m (more than a third), and still ended up positive, through the £93m in cash generated during the year -- a brilliant outcome.

[stdyeddy] 16/9/2021 15:27

Just gone positive. Looks like it's going to end up on the day.

[petersw1] 16/9/2021 15:24

My take here is that we just got a sold set of result with no real surprises. Long term holders will continue holding but with more confidence given solid confirmation of what you could previously infer. Volume of trades today seems fairly low to me for a results day. I suspect main sellers are people that were looking to sell but decided to wait out for the results. IC has moved from sell to hold: hTtps://www.investorschronicle.co.uk/news/2021/09/16/slimmed-down-kier-breathes-more-easily/

[bathboy2] 16/9/2021 15:18

Read it again it says year end debt

[spagboll] 16/9/2021 14:20

Being positive about it that means KIE has 435m GBP more cash than you thought it had. So that has to be great news!

[spagboll] 16/9/2021 14:13

Bathboy I think you misread the results. This is the extract; "-- Net cash / (debt) at 30 June 2021 of GBP3m (FY20: GBP(310)m), average month-end net debt of GBP(432)m (FY20: GBP(436)m) -- Includes reduction of GBP46m in supply-chain financing -- Receipt of capital raise and Kier Living sale proceeds arriving in the final months of the year. Limited impact on average net debt" So at year end there was net cash of 3m GBP - due to the capital raise and KL sale.

[wallywoo] 16/9/2021 14:02

Gixxer, the market has not responded to these figures because Kier was expected to have poor figures (and partly because every other builder is up 2 percent on a good trading day). My points are because they are trying to dress them up as good figures! It's whether they can generate any cash going forward that will decide the future share price But it is valued very highly now, any bad news will hit the share price and because of this is likely to drift lower over the coming months (down to 100). Bathboy, historical average net debt figures (for year to end June) tell us little because £110m from kl sale and £241m equity issue were both received at the end of June

[gixxer1] 16/9/2021 13:46

Wally - I am sure if you are seeing these figures, then others are too. If so, why hasn't the share price crashed? Surely the big investors and Banks would be calling KIE out? By the way, I don't profess to have the 'market knowledge' of the investors on here. I am someone who looks at both sides of things and then makes his own mind up :) I work for KIE, see that we are doing OK and that I am still gainfully employed. I have bought shares (sometimes at a price that turned out not to be so good) have held them and am in the company ShareSave Scheme - all my choice. You may say I am biased, but it is my money that I am investing and as said in a previous post, I don't have the disposable income as others do on this board.

[bathboy2] 16/9/2021 13:45

The year end, not month end debt is 432m down from last year 436m, that is after they've took in KL money and capital raise receipts, that means the 350m has already disappeared,

[zicopele] 16/9/2021 13:41

Top man wally

[wallywoo] 16/9/2021 12:30

Lol gixxer, FACTS; 1) Kier's audited p + l shows a £31m bottom line loss (so they have no net profit, but a net loss!!). 2) In their spin they say they have 25p per share earnings. They also mention a 11.6p basic EPS. Make up all sorts would be my take and certainly not the investment world's take on EPS (net profit/loss divided by number of shares). They will have no p/e ratio because they have negative (loss) earnings. In deed, the audited balance sheet and profit and loss show no correlation at all to Kier's headline bullet points!! Please tell me how that is not dishonest???? I call a spade a spade! It's not me who should land in trouble.

[gixxer1] 16/9/2021 12:26

Greetings, not posted for a while but I do visit every day as it does bring a smile to my face reading the posts on this board. Wally - your comment about Kie being and I quote 'one of the most dishonest companies around' is a very bold statement. As you know I have never disrespected you (or anyone on the board) and I do hope your comment doesn't land you in trouble.

[kierculpa] 16/9/2021 12:03

Apologies bathboy, i should have made clear my post was aimed at the grown ups on here with skin in the game.