Kier Share Discussion Threads

[stdyeddy] 12/5/2021 13:27

Peter; one post in two years? Are you anyone we know already?

Regarding wally-plops and his 'short' -- unfortunately the whole thing is a fiction. His presence on this board is a personal vendetta against Kier and the longholders here. As we have all pointed out, anyone holding a genuine short doubled down so frequently as wallzo claims, would now in john's words, be 'telephone numbers offside'.

As far as your actual question is concerned, the shorts generally speaking experience the reverse to the longs in a rights issue. When the rights are issued, if the share price remains ABOVE the discounted value of the rights issue share price, the longs have rights that they can sell. Eg, if the discounted rights shares were available to shareholders at say 90p, and the share price was at 110p, you COULD if you really wanted to, sell your rights to the new 'discounted shares' and make 20p a share. Or you can buy the rights issue shares at 90p and have a notional 20p profit on your account (assuming the share price doesn't then slide down).

The shorts however, have an immediate LOSS of (in this example) 20p per rights issue share which they can crystallise by closing the rights issue position.

In practice, the share price often drops to reflect the discounted shares, and if you're fortunate as a shareholder (long), the drop in the share price does not reach the discounted share price and you don't have a loss overall on your account, if you re-invest in the rights shares. But you have to increase your holding.

Shorters face the same kind of double jeopardy; if the share price moves down to the extent that it reflects the discounted value of the shares within the entire shares in issue, then they make money on the existing shares, but lose potentially the same money on the rights issues shares. The only way that shorts can benefit from the RI is if the share price drops below a threshold price which enables them to make more money on the existing shares than they are losing on their obligation to buy the rights issue shares. And if the RI essentially fails and the share price drops below the RI discounted price, the shorts make loadsamoney, on the existing shares and the rights to the new shares.

However, if the market responds positively to the RI (as it did recently with DLAR) the shorts lose money on the existing shares and loads more money on the rights. This is the likely situation for wally-plop's shorts, but since they are all in his head, it has no real-world consequence, which is why he is blithely unaware of the danger.

[ontheforks] 12/5/2021 13:00

You asking for yourself or a friend lol

[johnbuythedips] 12/5/2021 12:59

Sorry Peter. Never shorted a stick in my life. Have no idea.
I can tell you somebody who claims to have.
His names Wally and he has watched this go from 50p all the way up to 103p. He has probably been sedated this afternoon.

[petersw1] 12/5/2021 12:47

Does anyone know what happens in practice to short positions held during an open offer?

Thinking from first principles, I suppose if the entity that loaned the shares wants to take up the offer they would either need to recall their shares and take the offer up as normal or they'd need the shorter to synthetically replicate the offer.

The only thing I've found by googling is this page: hxxps://www.ig.com/uk/help-and-support/spread-betting-and-cfds/market-details/what-happens-to-my-shares-position-if-the-company-issues-an-open
It mentions the risk of being "taken up against".

wallywoo, do you still have your position?
Would you be willing to share any insight around the terms and conditions the position has for such corporate actions?

[johnbuythedips] 12/5/2021 09:22

Millions are going through Wally. Nobody is ramping this stock.
You have sold from 50p all the way up. You need a risk manager to give you the shepherds crock. It is an embarrassing imaginary position and everyone is laughing at you.

[pric9447] 12/5/2021 09:09

Blown away, move on for your own sanity Wally, PATHETIC

[wallywoo] 12/5/2021 09:01

Lol, facts;

1) share price has declined 90 percent over 3 years

2) tangible net assets have dropped every year for the last 5 and are -£516m

3) Kier made well over 100p per share loss every year for the last 2 years.

4) Kier now need a massive equity issue or they are bust, 2.5 years after the last one.

And you who spends every waking hour ramping this stock for 2 years call me a rat!!!

You got to love johnbuythelosers, soo sad!!!

[pric9447] 12/5/2021 08:49

Imaginary short blown away, nobody is interested or cares in what you have to say Wally, PATHETIC!

[johnbuythedips] 12/5/2021 08:41

Where is your apology you rat. Have you ratted again?
100p

[wallywoo] 12/5/2021 07:29

Rikky, completely agree. The share price will be very uncertain from now on. You have uncertainty over whether they can find enough support for the equity issue and the share price will be under considerable pressure once shareholders know how much they need to fork out again.


Then you have a extremely likely market correction coming over the next few months. Kier is exactly the sort of stock that gets hit hard over that time (no dividends, losing cash, weak balance sheet).


Inflation gets more and more likely too, raw materials could hit Kier's tiny margins hard. Just look at copper at a all time high, and wood etc.




You will look back in a few months and be very happy IMO. When stdy starts saying the share price will double in days, it is time to sell!!!

[stutes] 12/5/2021 06:50

hxxps://www.constructionenquirer.com/2021/05/11/british-steel-stops-taking-orders-in-face-of-extreme-demand/

I wonder how British Steel is in this position- did they downsize and unable to recruit new staff or is Brexit causing problems?

[stutes] 12/5/2021 06:48

hxxps://www.constructionenquirer.com/2021/05/11/british-steel-stops-taking-orders-in-face-of-extreme-demand/

I wonder how British Steel is in this position- did they downsize and unable to recruit new staff or is Brexit causing problems?

[rikky72] 12/5/2021 00:13

Sold out of here in tranches recently making a not too spectacular 12%, but at least a profit. See a few familiar names (and a few basket cases :)) and some newcomers too.Is it lunacy to buy back in before the placing is announced. I think probably yes but wanted to hear others' thoughts?

[bluedaycoming] 11/5/2021 20:50

Whatever rayfenn.

[sparty1] 11/5/2021 17:17

1224
Every day is a bad day for wally..

[1224saj] 11/5/2021 17:08

I think a good day on a bad mkt day

[sparty1] 11/5/2021 16:58

Scam no one wally with the burning shorts ...my average is 0.43. Very happy with it.
Will go the same way as kier ..up! and a lot quicker than your kier @ 0 fantasy!

Stdy is right ..You are a fantasist. A real investor would own up and apologize.

[stdyeddy] 11/5/2021 15:51

wallzo, the apology was YOUR IDEA and you are reneging on your promise to apologise. You have absolutely zero credibility here now. I am very disappointed in you and I think your mum should confine you to your bedroom and take away your pink smartphone until you apologise properly for misleading everyone.

[pric9447] 11/5/2021 15:48

Pathetic Wally, FFS, get out of your bedroom and go find some other spotty kids to play with. REALLY REALLY PATHETIC

[wallywoo] 11/5/2021 15:45

Ooo touched a bit of a nerve with the ramping team here, johnbuythelosers, stdy and Sparty.You guys really don't like getting identified and pointed out that you are trying to scam Pi's. Shame.No apology necessary from me, share price under 100p. And likely to stay there.

[johnbuythedips] 11/5/2021 15:38

He will be back soon telling us his he has pulled another rabbit out of the hat and magicked his averaged up to 88 LOL LOL. He always lags about 8-10 pips below the share price to give his imaginary short a fighting chance and give it to give it some 'cred'! LOL

SOLD ALL THE WAY UP FROM 50P TO HIS HEDGE FUND HEROES GETTING OUT. WELL DONE!! SEES IT UP TO 102P Of course you did Wally Liar.

Where is Zico? - his 78's must of been triggered too.

[stdyeddy] 11/5/2021 15:23

wolly-chops, WHERE'S OUR APOLOGY? YOU SAID YOU WOULD APOLOGISE WHEN THE share price HIT £1. Is EVERYTHING you say a lie? Absolutely EVERYTHING? ALL THE TIME?

Let me help you:
WALLYWOO'S APOLOGY [draft one].
To all of the posters on the Kier board, and in particular, John, Stdy, Sparty, Nomdeplume, Ontheforks, Gixxer and EVERYONE ELSE THAT I'VE OFFENDED AND LIED TO, I WALLYWOO, the most spasticated shorter in the history of investment, and the biggest dribbling fatheaded-idiot on the face of the Earth, apologise for my totally pointless and malignant two-year campaign to damage the reputation of the UK's largest regional construction firm, which is clearly destined to multi-bag, probably this year. I hope you can find it in your hearts to forgive me, because I am now totally broke and living under an upturned supermarket trolley in the woods.
Sincerely, Wallywoo I-Smell-of-Poo.

Wallzo, this is just a suggested first draft for you to build on -- as you can see, I've kept it very light and simple, but you might want to apologise to particular individuals in more detail. I leave it up to you.