Jtc Share Discussion Threads

[jtcod] 02/1/2018 09:35

Certainly not so in the South East chestnuts

[chestnuts] 02/1/2018 09:18

JTC

I think you are wrong about building sector there are enough plumbers and builders joiners and so on,

[jtcod] 02/1/2018 09:15

Whilst I am a advocate of good education, the direction of the system seems blindly disconnected from the real needs of our economy. The two sectors with the most acute shortage of young entrants are Farming and building sector trades. The average age of farmers in the uk is now above 60. Nobody seems interested in it. Yet that industry is about to go through the most exciting change in possibly 2 centuries.The government has a responsibility I think to manage the economy together with education. There needs to be more data available for career decisions and a more coherent advisory strategy. Pushing every youngster into degree education is not enough to manage an economy successfully. This issue needs to be managed more intelligently for the needs of society as well as for the opportunities of the individual.

[kaos3] 02/1/2018 07:00

Once people went not to the school but to "read". What they were interested in. And the prof was a guide. Now most go to the school to get a degree

[chestnuts] 01/1/2018 21:48

Serratia


My son was telling me on one exam the average score was 25% and 3 of the students including my son got 100%, it doesnt hold much for this yrs pupils to actual pass and move on to next yr

[serratia] 01/1/2018 21:31

I do think we are degrading our education system. Singapore has built itself up in part on high quality education. They now only recognise certain degrees from specific UK university departments.
Saudi students studying in the UK only get funding if they are accepted into certain universities/courses.
Logical extensions of the way our degree's are going. I never really understood the governments view that graduates earn more so should pay for their courses. IF they earn more they pay more taxes so the government should fund universities to generate more tax revenue down the line but that's the issue. Charge students now is a short term gain. No university fees is a potential long term gain. Sadly politicians only look as far as the next election.
I also see a university education as part of a students non academic development. The freedom to explore, to understand others point of view and yes to make mistakes and learn from them. Being forced to live at home and go to a local university curtails that part of their development.

[the stigologist] 01/1/2018 21:19

They should. They aren't as privileged as the older generation who did it on Government tick and off the resources and backs of imperialist oppression/slave trade etc

[chestnuts] 01/1/2018 20:55

Serratia

What the governments have tried to do is build a mini economy around the universaties enslave probably 70% of all students to a debt they will have till they are 40. The more students that go to the Universaty the more students pay for this experiment, which will fail, but it also keeps unemployment down at the same time.

My son also works at Wetherspoons to buy the nice things in life. Most students at Univ just go on a jolly , all they are doing is having a party on the tick

[maxk] 01/1/2018 20:39

Old-ish article, but an eye opener.

[serratia] 01/1/2018 19:57

Chestnuts,

That's what I proposed,cut excess/irrelevant degrees and use the savings to fund students at no cost through degree courses the UK requires.
I also think we should examine A - Level course content. Some years back something like 20% of candidates achieved 3 grade C's at A level. Now a higher proportion are getting 3 A's. I know one student who went to an established university to study Physics. He was told there will be no practical classes in the first year. Instead they will attend Maths lectures as a grade A at A - level Maths is insufficient to be able to understand the requirements of their Physics degree. Some universities extend the degree course to 4 years and call it a Masters degree but in part that is to top up the A level syllabus.
Next up we have degree grades inflation Surrey gave 41.2% firsts in 2015/2016. When I graduated the Prof said we only give one first - to the top student of the year and there was only one Prof - the head of Department. Now !?
Then there's spoon feeding university students. I did my PhD alongside a Cambridge graduate. He was told the course content and what to read/understand, lectures were minimal. Regular tutorials were to check you were on top of the content. Now there are more lectures and an assignment to be handed in each Monday for most universities. I remember saying to a friend's child who was struggling at the end of year 1 - Read/understand etc each weekly assignment they always post the optimal answer. They will not ask a different subject/question in your finals. The result - 1st in Maths.
When schools/universities are judged in part by the grades that's what happens.

[chestnuts] 01/1/2018 19:41

Hazl

Everyone as a right to disagree but you try and run a country with out engineers , doctors, and so on. and let it be run by artist and actors.

[hazl] 01/1/2018 19:14

Happy new year to you captain and the bb.

[hazl] 01/1/2018 19:13

Chestnuts.
I am sorry but I disagree with you about 'the more important ie maths'!

As serratia intimated the cultural subjects are equally important on many fronts and especially to everybody's well-being.
I found a very old booklet written by J B Priestley some time ago that extols both the virtue and lack of understanding of the Arts and was written again
in a very impoverished time.
The main reason so many were encouraged to go to University in recent years was because of Government policy and unemployment issues.
It is therefore difficult for employers to sort the wheat from the chaff in some instances,though I have read that some firms are using robots to select candidates initially from their applications now!

[chestnuts] 01/1/2018 18:55

Serrati

What i would like to see is a total change in what we charge for degrees, the more important ie maths , physics, should be free including living accommodation. And the rest on scale depending on how useless the degree is.

I am Bias though my son is taking Maths and he does work extremly hard, at the beginning of this yr there was 30 in is class its down to 20 now. He goes to Preston and wants to be a teacher.

[serratia] 01/1/2018 18:14

There is it seems a shortage of engineering graduates as Dyson has set up his own university as an off shoot of Warwick university.



I don't think we need to focus only on degrees that lead to a career. There has to be a place for cultural subjects. For example UCL has a top Egyptology dept. We should maintain that department.
What I think should be addressed is the volume of courses where there is a mismatch with demand. There are also a number of 'degree' courses which do not seem too relevant or demanding.
Perhaps schools should give a higher profile to the careers advisory staff although I'm not sure why students still willingly take on large debts without considering their future job opportunities themselves.
I remember talking to a recruitment person for one of the UK's major companies. He said he hires from a short list of 6 universities. There isn't time to consider whether a degree from xxxx meets their needs.
It appears this is still the case -

The ten universities most-often targeted by Britain’s top graduate employers in 2016-2017 are Warwick, Manchester, Bristol, Cambridge, Leeds, Birmingham, Nottingham, Oxford, Durham and Bath.

[captainfatcat] 01/1/2018 17:56

I will come out of lurking and wish all a happy new year and such an interesting and informative bb.

[hazl] 01/1/2018 17:39

Very interesting post serratia.
It brings into question the age-old dilemma of do we teach students with the idealism of stretching them to the lengths of their particular talents or are we just accommodating the state and the economic climate at the time?

Of course we are mortal beings and we have to work to live and your post reminded me of a conversation I had some years back with my daughter who had chosen to specialise in Fine Art ...a very academic degree...but still centered around the Arts of course.
Though she could easily have picked up a very much more financially rewarding route she followed her choice.
As I say, the difficulty came when deciding whether to teach, as a further education university tutor, yet more students that were likely to find it difficult to secure jobs in this day and age.
Interestingly Guildford University has gone higher up the tables for success in employ ability of it's students, not only because by its nature it is a science and technology college but also,it seems, because it has one year work placements.
Goldsmiths...part of the University of London, in contrast, offer just a few weeks,more like the the work experience idea.
Again the Universities,inherently, serve a different kind of student and some will be likely to become self-employed or perhaps be more capable of being entrepreneurial.
Interesting topic and of course as the state will no doubt encourage less people to go to university and more into apprenticeships or into the workplace things are likely to change yet again.

[the stigologist] 01/1/2018 13:21

Yes the older generation of politicians/financiers/bankers/civil servants have ruined this Country

Corbyn is the only politician with the vision to correct some of the huge structural imbalances which have occurred over the last 40+ years of (failed) neoliberalism

[jtcod] 01/1/2018 10:44

That paints a worrying picture serratia.Happy New Year to everyone btw.

[serratia] 01/1/2018 10:15

MT,

I was on the academic advisory boards of two Russell group universities and sat on a few government advisory boards.
Each year there is a publication following up on the job profiles of graduates from each subject. The year I looked into it in detail I noticed that some subjects that generated a large number of graduates had a poor follow through in terms of relevant jobs.
To give one example - Psychology had that year 11,000 graduates and only a tiny number obtained relevant employment. Burger flippers/ pint pullers and secretaries were the major employment routes. I have no doubts that there are relevant Psychology employment routes but we seemed to turning out an excess. Graduates from universities of lower standings would have great difficulty obtaining a relevant career.
On the other hand medics/vets/engineers etc all followed through into relevant employment. It's possible to view the follow up figures as a measure of demand and also see where demand exceeds supply.
I proposed to the civil servant heading one group that we cut funding for courses where there is a large excess of graduates and use that money to provide no cost degrees in subjects in high demand by employers. There was more detail to my proposal eg some general science subjects had poor initial job opportunities but students sometimes used the degree as a basis for a job focused masters degree when they had a clearer picture of where they wanted their career to progress.
The response by the then government - We want to see 50% of students getting a degree and my proposal would reduce that number. For a whole host of reasons that was an awful response. I know of one graduate in Psychology from a lower ranked university who tried for years to get a relevant job to the subject and failed. That student ended up declaring herself bankrupt with everything that entails.
That is one effect of the policy at that time. I haven't looked again at the figures but suspect it's little different today. Quite sad.

[chestnuts] 01/1/2018 10:08

I must say 2018 was my best yr ever i only had one share and it as returned a whopping 600% and it is SQZ and at 83p is still very cheap.

[lauders] 01/1/2018 03:07

Mount Teide - Congratulations! That is impressive. Would be very interested in your 5 selections to do well in 2018 if you are into such things ;-) I had my best year ever in the Stock Challenge annual selection here:

Seems you are interested in many companies I am following but not invested in so hence I read your opinions with interest. Hope you will join but understand if it is "not your thing".

Best wishes to you, JTC and all other visitors to this BB from a lurker here.

[mount teide] 01/1/2018 02:12

Mattjos - 'The new Labour claptrap of everyone being entitled to a degree'

This appears to have created a worrying number of disillusioned and indebted youngsters with qualifications of dubious value to many employers.

Many of the graduates i interviewed from the New Universities (former Poly's) were not only of an extremely modest quality but often lacked self confidence and ambition.



2017 - Great to see the pessimistic consensus opinion of economists proved wrong - the world economy had its best year since the 2008 financial crisis.

My portfolio returned a very pleasing 56%, with two top five portfolio investments by weighting both returning over 170% - TAP and ARS take a bow - both are stocks in sectors (Global Mobile Advertising Platform Technology and Copper exploration/mining), that currently has a strong flood tide behind them.

Happy New Year to all of you.

[ranike] 30/12/2017 21:23

Talk a lot of sense there mattjos. Because that generation are locked out of property
ownership, whatever disposal income they have is easy prey to the likes of Apple,
Amazon etc.

[mattjos] 30/12/2017 20:13

Have some Degree qualified engineers working in the company in the 28-30 age bracket.

They are still paying off university debts monthly & they also have PCP contracts each month + pay rental each month on housing.

They've been with us long enough to be enrolled in the pension scheme.

Add all this up and then assume they actually eat something each month & have some sort of a social life. Nothing left each month.
The crazy thing is the rent they pay each month ... it's a ludicrous sum imo but, they seemingly have no aspiration to own a house & also quite financially illiterate. They've asked me if they should invest in a LISA ... or more accurately; "Do you know what a LISA is and what I should do about it?"

These are supposedly bright & well-educated people who are now 8-10 years into their careers.

I find it really quite worrying. They seem to have just 'settled' for their lot in life already.

There seems to be now a whole generation that fell for the New Labour claptrap of everyone being entitled to a degree, even if so many of the degrees awarded were issued by what were historically technical colleges specialising in a practical trade/craft.
They've left 'university', just skirting the last financial crisis & so far, only experienced a recovering marketplace for jobs. Most seem to have nothing to fall back on as/when the next crisis emerges.

I do take my 'responsibility' of being an owner/manager (& therefore their employer/boss) seriously & it does worry me but, ultimately, my obligations/responsibilities are not to them.
Was I / were we more competent at that age and more savvy than they? Hard to recall exactly but, I am quite sure I was more determined/ambitious than they seem to be at that age.