Ilika Share Discussion Threads

[supernumerary] 08/12/2019 23:11

One would hope so :)

[horneblower] 08/12/2019 23:09

I think those are Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP) and Nickel Manganese Cobalt (NMC) cells which both use liquid or gell electrolytes. They are different from Ilika's cells.

[supernumerary] 08/12/2019 22:39

I think they're (sort of) powder, so both solid and flexible. These people seem to be the market leaders in these cells:



This gives sizes - there are a few oddballs, but standard sizes seem to be near-square such as Purdey was handling that are 150 x 144, and oblong ones like HB described that are 161 x 227.

I expect there are more detailed specs around if you search - like this for example:
but I'm otherwise occupied at the moment.

[horneblower] 08/12/2019 22:04

The way the cells are made they could be any size you want. However, because you can combine them in multiples either serially or in parallel, you don't need to make huge ones to get more power. For structural stability the A6 size seems a reasonable compromise.

The materials were not disclosed to us so I can't answer that. I assume that pure lithium, lithium oxide, possibly nickel, cobalt, manganese, aluminium etc are used.

Yes, the finished product is solid.
I am so old that "solid state" to me means electronic as opposed to valve technology. ☺

[a.fewbob] 08/12/2019 18:33

Hornblower,

Isn’t the finished product solid?

[a.fewbob] 08/12/2019 18:32

I really wish I could have gottee Ed n to this factory visit!!

[a.fewbob] 08/12/2019 18:30

Hornblower,

I don’t suppose you know what materials Ilikas Goliath battery uses?

From what I understand from the way their new battery will be manufactured, the size of the battery would only be limited by the size of the printer.

So would it be fair to say that they could if so desired make A4 or larger size batteries if they wanted?

How about making a flat battery, several mm thick the size of an IPad??

Or even, a battery the same width and length of the entire battery pack of a Tesla?

Anyone know how flexible in terms of dimensions this battery could be?

[horneblower] 08/12/2019 11:45

Although I had rather despaired of Ilika ever being an effective and profitable battery designer, my visit to the PR day at their new plant near Southampton has somewhat changed my mind.

I had assumed that they were trying to up-scale their chip-based micro batteries but I was wrong. What they are doing is much less hightech and much more likely to succeed for large scale applications like laptops, EV's and even cellphones. It's not what I would call "solid-state" but it does use a dry electrolyte.

The relatively thick coating required for the cathode, anode and electrolyte layers lends itself well to the screen-printing system they have chosen. It's done by hand in their pre-pilot plant but could be fully automated for mass production.

The key will be their ability to optimise the internal chemical and physical composition of the A6 battery to get it to peak power output, power density, cyclability, long-term storage and minimal weight and cost. Ilika know well how to do this. Their original expertise was in exactly this...although they have now dropped that part of the business.

Their ongoing success rests in a few, crucial points. Firstly they must succeed in discovering the optimal configuration of the physical and chemical possibilities in order to produce a cell at least as good as the best current Li-ion battery. This may not be possible! Secondly they have to be able to protect their property rights since the formula will never be a secret. I don't know whether this is possible! Thirdly they need to do this within about eighteen months. If not, the competition will already be there.

So, should I invest in Ilika and if so, when?

I'm a chartist and my take on the chart is that the price is likely to drop back towards 20p over the next few months. That is when I will expect to start accumulating stock. My target then would be 80p to 100p.

[nw99] 08/12/2019 11:02

Very happy to be invested here Solid state batteries are the way forward .Incredible growth potential.Partnered with Toyota.Battery has ceramic ion .Big picture is increase size and scale for us in EV TOyota research injected 1M into IKA in 2018Titan Wind also there a great company with cashGrants coming to IkA 2.9 m Mkt cap below 35mHuge potential upside If it develops the technology will see shares increase 10x .

[horneblower] 07/12/2019 12:05

Dyson is still into battery research. It's just the car production that he's pulled out of, sensibly imo.

One of the speakers (I think it was Adam Collins of Liberum) said that Dyson had been hoodwinked by Ann Marie Sastry of Sakti3. At the time of the investment Sastry was being feted by the US president as being the genius behind the new battery tech and Dyson took his eye off the ball. Not that he would have done any better with Ilika at the time!

There's a lot of info in the ring-bound booklet that Ilika gave out on Thusday's PR day.
It shows every slide that the three speakers used (Purdy MD of Ilika, Asad Farid of Berenberg and Adam Collins of Liberum. I think they will have copies left over and a request to Lianne Cawthorne of Walbrook at wallbrookpr.com might bear fruit.

...or you could ask that the pages are posted up on the Ilika website (if they are not there already).

[nw99] 07/12/2019 10:18

Dyson pulled out of the electric car venture that's why

[horneblower] 06/12/2019 20:08

My feeling is that the large format cells, being far simpler in construction than the mini Stearax cells, are more likely to be a success. However, protection of the optimised formulae for the best cells will be a challenge. It won't be a secret and will be easily copied, so patenting the formulae will be important.

[horneblower] 06/12/2019 20:03

The info pack shows the expected path forward for the optimisation of the ss battery pouches.

It suggests that by mid 2020 they should have exceeded 300Wh/kg (currently ???); exceeded 400 Wh/kg by about March 2021 when they should be ready to deliver the first beta cells (pre-production cells for external evaluation) to potential partners.
The aim is eventually to get to 550Wh/kg
Full production should start end 2021.

The thing that might slow them down is the formation of dendrites and whiskers in the solid electrolyte phase. Graeme Purdy mentioned them. They are what cause batteries to slowly seize up. It's a problem to solve and could take time.

[horneblower] 06/12/2019 19:33

In the information pack that was handed out by Ilika there is a picture of the solid state pouch.
It looks like the one I saw in the glass display case in the lobby of the production unit that we were given a tour of.
It is rectangular and is titled "A6, 30Ah solid state pouch cell.

On it is printed...

"Ilika
30Ah
(GDC-30P-A)
Solid State Lithium ion
Pouch Cell
3.6V
108Wh
270g (0.6lbs)"

The true A6 dimensions are 105mm x 148mm

It doesn't give the thickness.

There you go.

[supernumerary] 06/12/2019 12:50

No I don't think so - have a look at this: It's clearly got the terminals on it already.

I might have a look later at industry standards for these things, to see how it compares, but a bit busy now.

[horneblower] 06/12/2019 12:04

Perhaps the cell is square inside an oblong pouch with the terminals extending the length.

[supernumerary] 06/12/2019 11:32

hb - there's not much on the Ilika website. On this presentation about 3 mins in:



there's a pouch battery that's square - about 100x100 I'd say, and maybe 5mm thick, although it's hard to tell, and apparently dated October 2019. Is that what you saw, or was yours decidedly oblong? (150x100 is postcard size, the old 6" x 4" for those who live in the past :) )

I guess it's easier to make powerful little batteries like my lipo than powerful big batteries like Goliath, so that might account for part of the difference too.

It still feels like there's a discrepancy that only Ilika can explain.

[horneblower] 06/12/2019 08:47

supernumerary,

I expect it's my figures. I guessed the dimensions from looking at a sample inside a glass cabinet so I could be way out, especially on the thickness. It might be only 4mm, not 7mm. Also, I may be out on the watt/hours. Can anyone who was there remember what they said?

I asked why they had decided on those chosen dimensions and they said it was an auto industry standard.

[a.fewbob] 06/12/2019 07:44

And IKA will be at the forefront of it all!

[nw99] 06/12/2019 07:34

Auto makers are forecast to spend around $225 billion to develop new electric-vehicle models over the next several years