Finance Ireland Share Discussion Threads

[verulamium] 18/11/2002 02:07

But the 16% will come with a lot of strings, and you may have been better off getting a smaller rise and keeping your cushy conditions. But that's life.

[zuke.] 18/11/2002 00:57

20% I thought would have settled it myself , still might , though as you say 16 looks to be it.
They were never going to get 40 , they should of asked for £9.00 an hour , they would of got a bit more public support , soon as you say 40% rise people ,even if like me think they deserve it, think " no chance " , , , seems they were right !!

[jaxaxe] 18/11/2002 00:24

Bradwell,
as each day passes your unnatural obsession with firemen gets more and more bizzare and stronger;perhaps its the uniform with its buff slinky material,the lemon coloured helmet or even that sweet sweaty odour of the locker room thats the catalyst for your deviant prediliction;whatever it is you must seek help before it gets completely out of hand.
However, the serious issue at hand is the dispute over pay for the firemen.It now seems that Gilchrist is ready to capitulate to the government and accept much-much less than the 40% that he previously stated that he wouldnt budge from.The news reported that this morning he was frantically phoning up John Presot begging him to resume talks before Friday,being the fair and honourable man that Mr Prescot is he invited him back to the negotiating table with the FBU employers.Andy Gilchrist had seemingly not been able to read fully the contents of the very fair(Andys words not mine)Bain report,you must bearin mind that Gilchrist had very little education in his formative years and he had some difficulty in understanding the format.
Now that Gilchrist has seen sense there should be a dramatic speed of pace in negotiations.
...J.levi.
ps ,please dont hesitate to email me i n regards to therepy...my door is always open! j.l.

[wageslave] 17/11/2002 23:49

This is a nice opportunity for union bashing, but thats all it is. The relationship between Labour and the unions can't be discounted in any case. Labour will try to avoid outright confrontation with the FBU and the weekend press indicates mounting pressure within Labour for a negotiated settlement @ 16%. It will come, wait and see.

And as for the comments on Andy Gilchrist (of whom I'm no big fan), he's doing his job which is to get pay rises and improve working conditions. If he was a CEO you would laud him for raising margins. Finally, get real boys, there would be no pay claim without a union or union dues. Credit where it is due!

[boonyed] 17/11/2002 22:09

Gilchrist has President Tone on the ropes.

He's going to capitulate.

[ridgeback and jaxaxe] 17/11/2002 18:17

visit our bum BB........SCROLL TO HOME PAGE

[jaxaxe] 17/11/2002 18:13

Sparky,
if I were you Id be getting onto Andy Pandy and telling the FBU to ship a few thousend of those firemen over to man the picket lines with you lot...the FBU must have money to burn.
The Newyorkers may have reason to strike though because they are REAL fire fighters...and they`re paid quite a lot less than UK fire workers;seems a little odd that you never bothered about their wages ...just your own!
jack levi.

[rrrutbuster] 17/11/2002 13:47

How much better off would fireman be if they didnt pay their union dues, and linked the saving with their pay rise .It seems to be a waste of money to me, especially with the prat that is in charge.
a correct figure would be appreciated.

[brainclamp] 17/11/2002 12:36

He and the british people own it all to you lads.

Fred Fireman :
'Earns' £22,000 pa.
Retires at 55 - a final salary pension worth £22,000 pa. Has a 1/20 chance of dying before retirement, and most can look forward to enjoy a full 20 years of retirement.
Average Working Week:
Relaxing for 2 days then gets paid for sleeping 2 nights with 4 days off for his efforts. A large part of time spent keeping fit and healthy.
5 Weeks Holiday per year. Early retirement on sickness grounds.
'A job for life'. Next to impossible to get sacked.

Lets see what Jo Public gets :
Earns £24,000 - This is the 'average' - most people earn thousands under this.
Retires at 65 with annuity of 3% giving £3000 pa (if lucky). Has a 1/10 chance of dying before reaching 65, and there is a good chance he will be pretty frail in the 10 yrs of retirement after that. Only 50% will see thier full retirement to 75.

Average Working Week:
A treadmill of 5 x 9-5 working days with 2 days off to try to take his mind off next week.
2 Weeks Holiday per Year.
Has to move from job to job, risk large spells of unemployment, unpaid illness and life events for which they will get nothing.

He will be lucky to have saved 15% pa of his average £24,603 gross salary over his working life, which is then put in the stock market. His final savings sum in todays money will be about £110,000 over 30 years. Who knows what the stock market and fund manglers will do to that - hopefully it will keep track with inflation. At the end he has to buy an annuity - that will yield him 3% at todays interest rates.
see

Makes your £25,000 'professionals wage' look like daylight robbery to me as you let people burn.

[veneto] 17/11/2002 11:30

Sunday, 17 November, 2002, 10:43 GMT



Bank governor warns over pay claim


Sir Edward: Big pay rises would push up inflation

Giving in to the firefighters' 40% pay claim would damage the UK's economy, according to the Governor of the Bank of England.


I think the chancellor's got a certain amount of room for manoeuvre and I think he'll use it sensibly

Sir Edward George
Sir Edward George said that if the government agreed to such an increase there would be a real risk that other public sector workers would say 'me too'.

"That would be very difficult to stop if it were allowed to start," he told BBC TV's Breakfast With Frost programme.

"I think one has to recognise that if we got wage inflation driven by the threat of strike in this way then that would impact the whole of the economy.

"We would see not just inflation higher, we would see unemployment higher and I think it would be very damaging indeed."

Healthy finances

Sir Edward was asked if he thought there was a danger of a 'black hole' developing in the government's finances.

"Oh no, not a serious black hole," he said.

"I think our finances our in much better shape than most other countries in the world."

He said he thought the UK's debt was exceptionally low by international standards.

"There are tactical questions but I think the chancellor's got a certain amount of room for manoeuvre and I think he'll use it sensibly. "

Rising house prices

Sir Edward said that he was confident about prospects for the world economy and for the UK in particular.

But he warned again about consumer spending, saying that it needed to moderate.

Although spending on the High Street has helped to keep the economy moving, there is a danger that if it grows too quickly it will lead to inflation.

The suggestion is that if spending does not slow down on its own, then the Bank might have to raise interest rates to keep inflation under control.

Sir Edward also said he expected to see slower growth in house prices.

Last week the Bank's monetary policy committee - which sets interest rates - warned of the danger of a collapse in house prices.

[brainclamp] 17/11/2002 11:20

Bradwell - I'm afriad its not lies - the average salary is warped by a significant proportion, 2% of the UK owning 50% of the resources, top jobs in the media, law and finance.
Yes - I have earnt more than that - but I take signifcant risks in being self employed. I would swap it for £22,000 and the final salary anytime. Of course with 46 people for each Firemens job you have to know someone to 'get in'.

Most people I know are on £14,000 to £19,000. A few are on £30,000 or over but all their jobs are looking pretty suspect.
Most people will have to work well past 65 to sustain themselves. So I guess most manual workers are on £17,000.

[bradwell] 17/11/2002 01:57

Brainclamp
22000 is that all!!!


And you of course earn less than a fireman for sitting at a desk, and taking no risks atall???

There is lies damn lies and statistics, don't bother with that rubbish, either you think that you want a proffessional at your time of need or you want a monkey??? up to you!!


Gypsy

Stop talking trash tony couldn't win a game of tennis against my 3 yr old never mind a dispute with firemen!!!!

[jaxaxe] 17/11/2002 00:43

Boon,
shall we have a wager on whether your`e back at work next week or not!
I suspect that it may be a long drawn out strike - Gilchrist is adamant that he wont abide by the changes put forward in the Bain report,I`ve managed to have hold of a copy and I couldnt really seee anything in there that was that objectionable to - the reduction in night duty staffing seems sensible.There was one of your lads on tv saying that nights were the busiest period - I cant believe that that really is the case.Would you be good enough to quantify that!
Most of your lads seem ready to accept far less than 40% some said that 16% would be a fair offer -but all of them resist the modernisation put forward by Bain.Gilchrist seems to be on a much more militent tack than the rank and file its as if he glories in trying to demean the government-and his employers.The incident with John Prescot whereby he riddiculed him on the phone was broadcast to millions...it certainly wont have done Gilchrist any favours it smacked belligerance and ignorance...school boy antics!
I think everyone in the UK has total admiration for how wonderfully the troops coped over the past couple of days;their action response times were even quicker than those of the regular firemen,thats fact-but I have to admit even I found that quite incredible.The thought hit me that it could be bogus propagander put out by the government but too many witnesses dismiss that -its obviously the ..truth.The morale of the troops is sky high..I have been talking to some that said they hoped the strike would go on a lot longer- the camarardie is brilliant.Noone would be foolish enough to say that the troops are as good as the regular brigade - but at first glance it seems that they could be after gaining more experiance in the field.The two days were an insight into what could be acheived...it was a good dummy run(as one squaddie fireman said to me)..I rather think Gilchrist will be secretly seething that the government have coped so brilliantly well..it does seem all things considered that he may have hung himself by his own petard.
The eight day strike will bethe real test for the troops - I think that they will cope,you can bet that the government are exceedingly relieved and pleased with the data gathered on the two day strike.If the eight day strike goes ahead and the troops perform just as magnificently as of late then the government will have effectively won:I say that because public opinion will be on the side of the troops at Christmas....the media will give it their all for the forces,and portray the fbu as Ebeneezer Scrooge.I appreciate that the media have made comments about donations of toys and gifts for the firemens chidren but it will pale into insignifficance when it swings to the troops poor yuletide and the sacrifices that they are making to keep the public safe in their beds at that time of year.
Can you imagine the what the papers would say if a soldier was killed in action on fire duty...it wouldnt surprise me if hed get a state funeral.It would be well worth the sacrafice...the least loss for the greater good...(I think if I was in command that I would be asking for a volunteer),it would be a master stroke in PR terms.
..must go got
some festive shoppingto do.See you on the dark side:-)jack levi

[boobly] 17/11/2002 00:25

WELL DONE - NAVY , ARMY , AIR FORCE.
You deserve this country`s most sincere appreciation AGAIN.

As for the ring leaders of this strike....YOU FILL ME WITH DISGUST.

[gypsy king] 16/11/2002 23:36

Funny how everyone has gone quiet !

Tony 1 Unions 0

Game on !

[boonyed] 16/11/2002 19:46

Jack

About reduced fire cover at night, you don't need me to quantify anything for you, just look at the statistics for the 48 hour strike, 7 dead all were in fires after 6pm.

As for the response times of the GG's being quicker than the Fire Service, well that could be due to a number reasons, complete rubbish, miss reporting, the fact that the GG's may have been based closer to the incident than the Fire Stations are or, like you say, that it is propaganda. Take the fire in Halesowen for instance, the building was 5 miles from the T.A. centre where the GG's were based, it took them 20 minutes to get there. That was at 12.30 at night with a Police escort and they even used the motorway. In one paper there was a photograph of a police car followed by a green goddess followed by a long line of commuters, who were late for work.

As for a Forces Firefighters getting hurt during the next round of strikes, well it's a real possibility. In 1977 two squaddies were killed and over 300 were injured, some seriously. That's a horrible scenario to contemplate.

President Tone should get together with the FBU and put a stop to this dispute before Friday, he owes it to those lads, our lads and the public, who's lives he is putting at risk.

BOON

[billy3] 16/11/2002 18:36

GilCHRIST now wants 16% offer just to come back to the negotiating table.
The government will not give in. The blackmail gets worse.

Simple economics says they cannot give in because all public sector workers will then have a legitimate claim.

[bradwell] 16/11/2002 18:02

siwel123

Correct!