Finance Ireland Share Discussion Threads

[techno1] 15/11/2002 23:32

Seek professional help , you muppet.

[techno1] 15/11/2002 23:16

The FBU live in fantasy land.

The RFU live in the real world.

[droogy] 15/11/2002 22:42

Is that where that little midget lives?

[sparky999] 15/11/2002 22:41

The RFU live in fantasy land.

[droogy] 15/11/2002 22:30

SHALOM wuzzupyabotty ya shirtlifter

[brainclamp] 15/11/2002 22:28

The RFU boys live in the real world. What a difference it makes. Doesn't save them from the FBU bully boys though.

[verulamium] 15/11/2002 22:16

Here's George Bain's background...

Born in Canada in 1939 Professor Sir George Bain has been President and Vice-Chancellor of Queen's University of Belfast since 1998. He studied at the University of Manitoba and at Oxford University. After holding various posts in a number of universities he became Principal of London Business School from 1989 until 1997. He was then the Chairman of the Low Pay Commission 1997 until 2002. He has held a number of other Chairmanships and Consultancies. He is also a member of the ACAS Arbitrators' Panel and has acted as an arbitrator and mediator in a wide range of industrial disputes, including those involving Shell UK Ltd and British Airways.

Professor Sir George Bain has published several books and articles on industrial relations and was knighted in 2001.


If you think he's going to come up with a biassed report just to please the government, you're very mistaken.


Meanwhile, here's the RFU's response to the report:


It is early days and we are still examining the detail of the 23 page "Position Paper" issued today by Sir George Bain. However, we believe the paper, and the main report due in December should form the basis of the process of driving change in the fire service.

We agree with Sir George that the fire service has to undergo significant change from being reactive to pro-active, and this needs to be planned and managed over a period of some months, possible exceeding a year.

The Inquiry has recognised there is much that is good in the fire service, but we agree it is time for some radical reforms.

The RFU is the only major trade union to make representations to Sir George and his team, and we are pleased that many of our suggestions for organisational and structural change are being commended.

The RFU has consistently supported the view that significant increases in pay could not be justified without efficiency savings, and we note the opportunities the report presents for the service to improve for the benefit of the public as well as the scope for enhanced income benefits for members of the service who embrace flexibility.

We are particularly pleased at the specific changes recommended for the Retained by Sir George, including:

Retained personnel to be treated as equal with fulltime staff, and paid pro rata. This will increase a longer serving retained firefighters hourly rate from £6.20 to £12.16, if the 11% increase is implemented.
Further work on providing fixed pay for a fixed commitment.

A much needed flexible retirement age and pension rights.

Removal of FBU restrictive practices, and new flexible working, such first responder schemes, wholetime/retained and mixed crewing.
We believe the overall 11% increase in pay, spread over a year, subject to new ways of working, forms a basis for negotiation and settlement. This is 5 times inflation and the "going rate" of other pay settlements. The Bain Inquiry holds out the prospects of further increases of the level claimed by the FBU, subject to individuals embracing change and adopting new skills.

Any disappointment at the current offer has to be seen against the FBU's unrealistic heightening of expectations of much greater increases, especially when a year ago they were vigorously defending current pay arrangements. The FBU has persuaded personnel to support them on the basis of deception that would probably make them guilty under the Trade Descriptions Act if they had been selling goods and services to their members.

The RFU fears that the FBU will now confirm the strike call, which we will not heed, as we have a no-strike policy. We cannot justify striking against our friends and neighbours, and we believe using public safety as a bargaining tool is immoral.

The RFU has consistently advocated negotiation, on the basis that the power of argument is stronger in the long term, and more sustainable than the argument of power.

We call upon the FBU to enter into negotiations and to give evidence of their case to Sir George Bain. If they do not, we predict they will quickly lose the support of the public and the fire service will no longer enjoy the high public esteem that we have spent years building up.

We also remind the FBU of our previous call to stop intimidation and harassment of personnel who do not wish to go on strike.

[bradwell] 15/11/2002 22:05

verulamium

And what exactly was independant about the Bain report???

[verulamium] 15/11/2002 22:01

Sparky....

As taxpayers we already pay a large amount towards an inefficient fire service. The people we pay are now refusing to do their jobs, despite their earnings keeping up with inflation since the time when they were willing to accept the job. There seem to be two options:

The people currently doing the job should accept the independent Bain report and accept change in return for higher wages

or

The people currently refusing to do their job should be replaced by some of the many other people ready and willing to do it.

It's sad to see firefighters ruining the respect and trust they were held in for their politically motivated and frankly dim leadership. I quote from the fbu website...

"the Fire Brigades Union is part of the
working-class movement and, linking with the
international trade union movement, has as its ultimate
aim the bringing about of the Socialist system of society"

What the hell's that got to do with putting out fires? A decent Union would have negotiated decent weightings for working in expensive parts of the country. They'd have ensured fair recruitment rather than perpetuating a culture of jobs for the boys (as long as they're white). They'd also have worked had to keep the excellent conditions (pensions and favourable shift patterns) which I don't despute you deserve, but which in all probability you'll lose in return for extra money if this dispute's going to be resolved.

You've been sold down the river by Gilchrist - are you really willing to lose 8 days pay for his socialist crusade just before Christmas?

[pmeas] 15/11/2002 21:44

Do ya know that song by blackgrape ,im a fireman

[pmeas] 15/11/2002 21:36

Didn,t you laern joined up writing i had speacil lessons and it really helped me out the teacher later peeled my trouser s off ,she was crazy woman she had a right thrust

[pmeas] 15/11/2002 21:34

Holy Bible Wazz

[jaxaxe] 15/11/2002 21:23

Wazzup,
thankyou for your admiration-I fully appreciate that you are besotted by my wizardry at the keyboard and that you have a unnatural desire to emulate me in the art of wit and repartee,however Im sorry,unless you can furnish me or ADVFN with your details then you will never become accepted in the circles that you so longingly wish to enter....you will forever only be able to post verbal tripe in numerous false names..

Your culture in your homeland will always be a drawback for you;being an untouchable must be a terrible and shamefull burden - perhaps I can offer you succour in the form of a family environment;my family would be pleased to accept you into our home.
Feel free to contact me at any time.
your good friend,J.levi.(the rabbi also sends his good wishes).
SHOLOM. ps youre filtered!

[sparky999] 15/11/2002 21:14

part time crews take longer to respond because they have to come from home etc before they get on the fire engine(5-10mins average).As the army are already there the response time is indeed quicker.If the station was full-time then the response would be alot quicker than the army.

The shock you have is exactly what I have been trying to tell you.If you want those quick response times then you have to as a taxpayer pay for it.All 7 deaths so far have come from area's where there is only part-time cover.

[globaltraderix2] 15/11/2002 20:36

wuzzup you're sad