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[bradwell] 14/11/2002 12:22

Billy3

So you want to sit around all day, suggest you become a trader!!!!! as a fireman you won't be sitting around all day!

[bomfin] 14/11/2002 09:52

If Gilchrist thinks he's going to win a blame game when there's 11% on the table he is deluding himself.
Government and opposition are united so they have no chance and rightly so.
Firemen have been tricked by an nonentity to behave like thugs with no brains.
They will be perceived as greedy shirkers of duty. The reason they have striked twice when Labour is in power is because if the Tories were there they would have called their bluff long ago. This time Labour have no choice but to do the same starting by making sure the army get our(tax payers, be it council,income or value added) equipment to fight fires and if that doesn't concentrate their minds sufficiently sack them.
bomfin

[jaxaxe] 14/11/2002 09:22

Bradwell,
stop kidding yourself in regards to the public supporting the fire workers - Ive yet to meet anyone that does,the vast majority on here certainly dont!
Those people outside the fire stations giving a pithy semblance of sipport are wives and relatives of the firemen-not the general public.
As regards your story regarding your stint in the Falklands its tripe,Techno sussed you out straight-a-way.The only conveyor that you were on was on the night shift at Argos.Theres a name for that condition of yours its called,the walter mitty syndrome;get youself down to your GP and and ask for a referal to a good psychiatric specialist....there are drugs that can help with your delusions so dont think that youre a lost cause.
I can also give you counselling if youd like - post your e.mail address and Ill gladly contact you with relevent telephone numbers.
Your friend,J levi.

[andrewd] 14/11/2002 08:25

The families of those that die as a result of this strike should sue the local authority/FBU/firefighters for not providing a reasonable level of fire service.

[brainclamp] 14/11/2002 08:20

An above average number of hoax calls during the night stretching the scant army cover - especailly in Strathcyde. Wouldn't be the fiddle brigade phoning up at 4am in the morning would it?

Castration and degutting is too good for them if so. No doubt some of the clever chaps may have used mobile phones to hoax on. I hope they catch them.

[billy3] 14/11/2002 08:10

Bradwell,

My best mate is a sub officer in the brigade, I was in the Army for 7 years.

I work earlies,lates,nights,bank holidays. When I do nights I do 7 nights in a row working 9 hours each totaling 63 hours.
I have done this for 10 years now and NEVER do I sleep on nights.
I will be working christmas/new years eve.

I know more about a firefighters job than you realise.
Firefighters assume that they are the only people who know what they are doing.
WRONG

[biomax] 14/11/2002 07:09

FIRE all greedy and lazzy suckers

[terry91] 14/11/2002 06:49

Well 3 people dead last night.

Saying nothing else. Watch the news.

Sleep well

[bradwell] 14/11/2002 01:35

Thanks mate but not my game! but best of luck with it and maybe we will come out good!!!

rgds

[bradwell] 14/11/2002 01:15

Yep but they moved us on to another wreck, lost 9 pals but sutch is life!

[techno1] 14/11/2002 01:13

Didn,t that get sunk?

[bradwell] 14/11/2002 01:09

RAF Atlantic conveyor

[techno1] 14/11/2002 01:06

82 ,I Landed at San Carlos with 45
Basically, you pays yer money yer takes yer choice.
You know the score when you sign on the dotted line .
Fire Brigade are underachieving whingers, i,ve seen em and its too cushy.
What mob were you with down South, mate?

[maxheadroom] 14/11/2002 00:26

The problem is that they've opened the box and let the public see into their cushy, unionised lives. There's probably no way we, the public, will now accept the continuation of their skiving and lazy ways. That they refuse to train as para medics is very wrong in my view but, until this strike, I had no idea that this was the case and that's just one example of their old fashioned, unionised workings that I, and many other members of the public, wasn't aware of. But we are now!

This may well be an example of a group shooting itself in the foot (and that just after it put said foot in its mouth).

[techno1] 14/11/2002 00:24

Jax, correct ,again.
Gilchrist is way, way out of his depth and proving to be a bigger plonker than
i first thought, with the intellect of an amoeba.
Asses led by donkeys.

[jaxaxe] 14/11/2002 00:13

Max,
every method of crushing the fbu will be used,the media machine is and always has been used by the government to beat recalcitrance;the fbu will find no friends in fleet street.
Every endeavour needs a plan and a good well thought stratagy to bring about a beneficial conclusion;this most certainly hasnt been the case in regards to this dispute - the commanding officer(Gilchrist)has led his men to a ambush on his first sorti,he should be backballed by the rank and file.
He had every chance of winning at least 15% and acheiving status;if hed have said we will take the 11%-but only if its given in one payment this year...and then 4%next year the government would have given him it....especially if hed also promised (only promised..didnt have go through with it)that hed advise his members to accept new work practises.And then of course he could have won every one over by saying;Were accepting this because we love this country of ours and couldnt bear to see people suffer because of a long and damaging dispute.The public would have cheered him so would the firemen and the government would be saying what a good and reasonable fellow that Gilchrist is(before shipping him out to a fire station in Timbuctoo).
Give an amateur a bit of power and they always buggar the job up.
Jack levi.

[dobcroft] 14/11/2002 00:06

Let me just reiterate here that if they were to accept the Bain pay offer, then that would equate to £24k in a years time. That would be about £2k above the AVERAGE wage, considerably more when the other benefits are taken into account.

If a job asks for no qualifications, and supply vastly exceeds demand, then an average wage would seem much too generous. If a job asks for special bravery, and the willingness to put your own safety on the line for the sake of others, then one would expect that person to be rewarded with an above average wage. It is no surprise then that a job with both these attributes is paid an average wage.

There should be no problem with being paid an average salary, after all most of us are. The main problem as I see it that looking at averages does not show the complete picture;

1. For a 40-year-old fireman £24k is probably going to be below average when he looks at his peers. But then again for a 20-year-old fireman the salary is going to look brilliant. It seems to me that the salary structure is such that it will prove demoralising to those 30+ with families that know that their salary is going nowhere. There seems to be no career progression. The salary structure should be significantly below average to start with, where the overwhelming numbers of applicants are, moving to the £30k that they want. £15k moving to £30k seems much more sensible with the same £24k average. Unfortunately it’s the FBU that argues similar pay for all.

2. For a fireman working in Northumberland £24k is going to look very good, whereas for a fireman working in London it is going to look poor. Market conditions demand that rates of pay should vary from region to region. Unfortunately it’s the FBU that argues similar pay for all.

Without doubt the structure of the fire service needs changing dramatically, and most of the recommendations mentioned above in the Bain report seem reasonable. On the subject of pay alone it seems to me that we should be able to motivate staff and reward service by putting a better career path in place, without necessarily increasing the cost to the taxpayer significantly. The FBU won't like that though.

[billy3] 13/11/2002 23:46

The first victim ?
An old lady dies in a house fire in Wales after being dragged out by RAF personnel.
It apears that striking firefighters went to assist.

Now, lets get it straight here. You know your strike will results in deaths (weather or not this was due to lack of respoinse time we don't know).

You are either on srike or you are not.You cannot pick and choose what you go to.
Truth is, neither you nor the public will stomach the death it will result in.

This strike will be broken by the weekend and it won't be because of more money.

It may show how we need a fire service when you are on strike. However, that also goes for water, gas workers, police, ambulance, coastguard, mountain rescue, air traffic control, the list is endless. Many provide life support services. Most work for the 40 hours they are on duty.

Tonight I saw the news with the Army waiting for a call. What were they doing ? Reading papers and watching TV. If only my job involved that.

[techno1] 13/11/2002 23:46

In ,out ,fresh set, back in, but apparently should have waited and let someone
else do it, even though persons were reported. (Sparky knows what I mean).
This was the straw that broke the camels back and I resigned.

[wageslave] 13/11/2002 23:36

2 BA wears on the same incident?

[techno1] 13/11/2002 23:30

Yeh, but highneb, they don,t realise that people know that they do this .shush
its a secret.