Finance Ireland Share Discussion Threads

[fast piayer] 13/11/2002 20:07

JAXAXES MUM SHAMES AN ELEPHANT WHEN IT COMES TO WHO CAN FART THE LOUDEST

[jaxaxe] 13/11/2002 20:02

I want 150 grand per year,

WHY


BECAUSE IM WORTH IT



jACK levi.

[brainclamp] 13/11/2002 19:53

Bloody eck - this thread has changed somewhat from its supportive tone in Oct.
It seems as sson as people find out about the 2 day, 2 night 4 days off shift systems - 2nd careers and restrictive practices thier jaws drop and they actually start getting nasty and thinking why aren't these guys working like the rest of us.
They may look at it and say if the binmen and street cleaning service can be privitsed and it knocks £200 from thier council tax bill, why isn't the Fire Service privitised knocking another £200 off? Then they can be paid 'what they are worth'

[i rely on balls] 13/11/2002 18:43

bigboyo, how old are you?, you talk like some silly little schoolkid, or is that what you really are, along with half the other FB wind-up merchants.

[spongy2] 13/11/2002 17:42

bigboyo=littlebraino

You people really are in for a shock if you think you're going to get anymore than 11%,
the public are not on your side. In fact it's so bad I would'nt be surpised if you find a few bricks heading your way in the next couple of days.

Whats the betting you go back in 3 weeks with your tails between your legs, having lost 6 days wages.
lol.

[bigboyo] 13/11/2002 16:14

hope two jags prescott sees sense and gives em 40%

[yf23_1] 13/11/2002 14:05

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear
IC 20 Sep bottom of p45

[jaxaxe] 13/11/2002 13:02

I rather suspect that bonehead and sparky(the bb resident firemen)wish theyd never started a thread asking for public opinion on their industial action.The problem with working in instutions is the workers see no farther than the enclosed environment in which they work and effectively live.They work together,live together and socialise together...and like as not sleep together.They really have a closeted veiw on the world outside the fire station..its only there when they go out shopping and the like.
The firemen began their strike P.R.around the anniversary of sept 11 assuming quite wrongly that the public would draw a comparison with the firemen of newyork:it was in very bad taste,Ive yet to speak to anyone who wasnt offended by the lack of subtlety by the fbu.It was a terrible PR blunder,as indeed was the `because were worth it`campaign - complete with stickers!
I will make a prediction that in the not too distent future there will be a spate of false alarm calls and acts of arson and some members of the fire service will be charged -and convicted of those offences.
That will be the final nail in the coffin for the fire service-and a marvallous coup forthe governments media machine.

[bradwell] 13/11/2002 12:49

esmerelda

The firemen will win, they will get what the employers offered 6 months ago ie:18% it's the government who have forced this strike by telling the employers no you can't pay them this ammount, but it is where this dispute will be settled, and all gov's fault. Again!

[bradwell] 13/11/2002 12:49

esmerelda

The firemen will win, they will get what the employers offered 6 months ago ie:18% it's the government who have forced this strike by telling the employers no you can't pay them this ammount, but it is where this dispute will be settled, and all gov's fault. Again!

[bradwell] 13/11/2002 12:48

esmerelda

The firemen will win, they will get what the employers offered 6 months ago ie:18% it's the government who have forced this strike by telling the employers no you can't pay them this ammount, but it is where this dispute will be settled, and all gov's fault. Again!

[esmerelda] 13/11/2002 12:44

Bradwell - I was just off to bed but you deserve a decent answer so please forgive me if I miss your point. Yes, what was proposed then was to close 'all' the mines, well maybe not all of course. The best response from the Union would have been to have recognised the futility of keeping them all open and instead fought a rear guard action to keep them open for as long as possible, perhaps by working with the government to delay the use of gas as a fuel. That's the "I agree with you but ..." arguement. IMHO it WOULD have worked but the, then, leadership of the miners could not accept that their industry was not as important as it once was AND could not remember the embarrassment it had inflicted on a previous Tory government and realise revenge, etc, etc. Hindsight is wonderful (it would have kept me from buying Spirent shares today for example) but as you suggest the miners could never win because of the political repercussions. Now do you appreciate what I am saying will be the outcome for the firemen? They will get what has been offered warts and all because they have overstepped that 'invisible' line.

[bradwell] 13/11/2002 12:13

esmerelda

A quick question, the miners were on strike because they were going to close all the pits, so how many are left now??? not a lot so, were they right or wrong to strike to try and save as many as possible, and was that strike just a political statement by thatcher paid for by you and me???

[bradwell] 13/11/2002 12:13

esmerelda

A quick question, the miners were on strike because they were going to close all the pits, so how many are left now??? not a lot so, were they right or wrong to strike to try and save as many as possible, and was that strike just a political statement by thatcher paid for by you and me???

[bradwell] 13/11/2002 12:09

Gypsy

No I'm not a fireman.

Adek
good question!! but does that mean we undervalue our important public services and should they be excluded from a decent living because they work for the government???

Snowmann

Get real and try getting a life!

[esmerelda] 13/11/2002 12:09

No, you can't blame them for trying but you can blame their leaders for not being in touch with reality. I was in the ESI when the miners strike took place and we strained every muscle to keep the power flowing, not because we disliked the miners but because it was our job to do so. They never stood a chance but only in retrospect could they see that. Alas the firemen come into the same category. Their role can be covered, albeit with less success, by the armed services in the same way we dragged every megawatt out of the non-coalfired power stations even though it cost the country more in the short term.

No, you can't blame them for resisting change to working practices that they see as sending the clock back. The trouble is that the rest of us have already experienced that and probably have difficulty in understanding why they object to the proposed changes! Perhaps a few homes/buildings burn for longer than they should and, heaven forbid, one or two people die who might not have done so had the firemen not gone on strike but just as in the miners day the government can't be seen to lose so there will only be one one loser in all this.

[adek] 13/11/2002 12:06

Snowmann - very balanced and informative post!

[adek] 13/11/2002 12:06

Gypsy - perhaps maggot?

[gypsy king] 13/11/2002 12:03

Adek

Yes

[snowmann] 13/11/2002 12:00

Some people here are missing the real point . Most people with a brain support the fireman in the sense they are an essential public service and save lives .

Where i part company with sparky is that he wants to keep all the restrictive practises and likes working 2 days with a 2 nights kipping out of 8 . The restrictive practices of the FBU are just amazing .
Why will they not allow thier members to train on defibs?
Why will they not allow voluntary overtime ?
etc
etc

In this day and age it is ridiculous and the fireman blackmail the public to keep these practises because they are on a `good` thing .

If the fireman embrace a modern fire / rescue service and learn new skills and allow someone who has trained in paramedic skills for example , to rightfully earn more money , then they would be worth paying a professional wage and i would certainly support them .

Whilst they refuse to offer the service they should and try and protect thier `cushy` number then they should not recieve public support .
40% for these restrictive practises ...you must be joking !

Sparky and these other fireman on the box , really seem to think they are doing everyone a favour turning up to do thier job . Its ridiculous .
The pictures of the rabble outside todays meeting cheering for a strike should have lost a big chunk of support i guess .

When i look at the interim review i cant see much i dont agree with i have to say . When the public really understands what the fireman are trying to protect and get 40% , then my guess is they will quickly lose public support .

If you ignore the 40% nonsense and look at the offer to them in relation to other settlements , with inflation at less than 2% , to strike and risk innocent lives is a bloody disgrace .


Here are the main points of the interim review:


Two stage pay increase totalling 11%. This would be made up of 4% with effect from November 2002 and 7% by next November - all dependent on accepting the reforms and implementing them swiftly

Introduce flexible and "family friendly" shift patterns alongside the traditional two days on, two nights on, four days off

Abolish "quasi-militaristic" discipline regulations and bring in modern personnel management practices

Allow voluntary pre-arranged overtime

Introduce "specialist" payments to reward scarce skills

Accept the Fire Service's role extends to public safety beyond just putting out fires

Maybe consider changing name from 'The Fire Brigade' to reflect this

Abolish single level entry to encourage graduates or people from other professions to join the service

Reform the pay and promotion structure to allow staff to move "laterally" and achieve pay rises within their grade

Pay retained (part-time) firefighters the same, pro rata, as full time staff

Encourage more women and people from ethnic minorities to join the service

Allow staff to work off front line duties beyond current retirement age if they wish

Allow firefighters to train as paramedics

[maxheadroom] 13/11/2002 11:04

I think the more intelligent amongst them will soon see the way the wind's blowing. Even the Sun has stacked up against them.
They gave it a run and it's not working. Fair do's , worth a try but they shouldn't've believed their own propaganda.

[pause] 13/11/2002 11:03

If this strike goes ahead, the firemen will NEVER be looked upon again as the hero's in our society. I blame the union's egoistic militant management.
The we will get you this,get you that, brigade.The fire fighters have been conned into believing they are infallible.If they DO strike they will end up
the long term loser's.

[jaxaxe] 13/11/2002 10:58

Sparky,
there is no such job in this country with the title firefighter.Ive checked it out with the various departments of government,Ive even phoned the headquarters of the fbu and the local job centre....the job as such does not exist,so would you kindly stop elevating yourslf to a status that is only applicable in the U.S.And I would appreciate you ammending your previous usage of the said title...its tantemount to fraud.
thanks in anticipation,
jack levi.