1x Tsla Discussion Threads

[simon gordon] 22/5/2024 17:44

FT Tech Tonic podcast - 22/5/24:

China's race to tech supremacy: Driving into Europe

China’s BYD has become one of the world’s largest electric vehicle manufacturers, thanks to its low production costs. The US has slapped a 100% tariff on Chinese EV imports to protect its own sector but BYD has its sights set on Europe. The FT’s James Kynge reports from Germany to find out what established European carmakers make of this burgeoning competition, and how the EU is handling it. We hear from the FT’s June Yoon, automobile analyst Stefan Bratzel, European Commission spokesperson for trade Olof Gill, and Manuel Kallweit, chief economist at German car lobby group VDA.

[mauricemonkey] 22/5/2024 14:30

He hasn't been working for free - that's an absolute bs claim. When the share price goes up, he benefits and he's the biggest single holder.
The award is 30x larger than the next biggest ever award which was Tesla to one E R Musk. Name a famous CEO - Musk has demanded more than 100x all of them. Zuckerburg, Nadella, Pichai - you're telling me he's done more than Zuck at Meta or Satya at MSFT? Laughable. Tesla has made virtually zero cash profit ever and never paid a dividend. He's a convicted securities fraudster trying to pull off the biggest corporate heist in history, and the bootlickers are cheering him on as he steals the company's engineers and creates an alternative AI company which is in direct conflict with his stated aims for Tesla.
You can't make up just how stupid and blind some people are.

[hosede] 21/5/2024 22:01

Fine CFb
Suits me - but still a big dilution and with big losses coming for several quarters at least .....
The mere fact that the Market cap is over 9 X book, shows how ridiculous the valuation is - and that applies to a multitude of US shares.

[cfb2] 21/5/2024 20:52

It's $64.3bn and you're being duplicitous referring to the book value rather than market capitalisation as it's awarded as shares with restrictions on sale.

Without those shares Musk will have been working for Tesla since 2018 for free. I think most people would feel annoyed if they had to hand back their last five years of earnings.

[johnwise] 21/5/2024 20:46

VIDEO

EV Dealers at a Crossroads: Can’t Sell, So They’re Dumping Them |
Electric Vehicles & The EV Demand!

[hosede] 21/5/2024 17:59

Am I Right? Musk is asking for 56Bn while Tesla's book value is $20 x 3Bn = 60Bn. So he's asking for 93% of the company's Net worth. -i.e. nearly 100% dilution. surely not! Have I lost a power of ten somewhere?

[hosede] 21/5/2024 17:43

I think Joe public have been offered EVS and said No. There just isn't enough charging infrastructure out there - and if you come to a halt you can't even hitch to the nearest garage and get a can. Hybrids offer SO MUCH more flexibility.
Meanwhile the share price is being affected by the vote on Musk's ridiculous pay package

[dominiccummings] 21/5/2024 16:23

Just watched it johnwise and it simply lists 6 POSSIBLE problems for Tesla, yet to be real. We'll see then.

[johnwise] 21/5/2024 12:26

VIDEO

Tesla Faces its Biggest EV DISASTER Yet... and It’s Just Getting Started!

[cfb2] 21/5/2024 11:21

I'm not ignoring it, I'm saying that if the legacy OEMs want to compete they need to change how they operate.

Car manufacturers used to produce cars at close to cost, so they have to operate in large volumes to make money (or rather reduce the loss per vehicle). A dealership network only made sense when consumers could be fleeced in the purchasing negotiation, upsold, put on finance and made use of servicing where they could be sold replacement parts at lucrative prices. This model no longer works.

Dealers are on the verge of being a hindrance for the OEM. EV cars can be sold on-line and will now require minimal servicing. Having a dealership to service EVs will not make money for the OEM.

[hosede] 21/5/2024 09:55

cfb
But you ignore the fact that carmaking has never been a very profitable enterprise

[cfb2] 20/5/2024 18:10

Great article Simon.

US UAW line worker earns on average $200k, Chinese earns £10k. The only chance the US has of competing is to replace the line workers with robots that costs $10k or less to run and put up tariffs to stop the Chinese from dumping in the US.

If they're successful and can avoid the friend-shoring work around then the benefits from economies of scale should be similar.

[simon gordon] 20/5/2024 16:56

Kyle Chan - 16/5/24:

Will Biden's Chinese EV tariffs work?

Will tariffs give the US auto industry time to catch up to Chinese EVs? Or will the US become the Galapagos of the car world?

[simon gordon] 18/5/2024 07:24

Michael Dunne - 7/5/24:

When Every Car Is Made in China

Bracing for the ultimate global automotive disruption

Unthinkable, right? Think again.

China today has enough capacity to manufacture half of the world’s 80 million vehicles. By 2030, China’s capacity could climb to 75% of the world’s volume, according to Global Data.

This year China will export 6 million vehicles to more than 140 countries worldwide, blowing past Japan for global leadership.

Chinese brands like SAIC’s MG, Chery, Geely’s Volvo and BYD are leading the way, winning in every time zone from Brazil to Thailand, from the UK to Australia.

Call it the coming China car colossus.

Continued....

[cfb2] 17/5/2024 19:40

hosede: Each settlement was a combination of the share price and a goal. I agree that without the goal it's easy to manipulate. Just look at Mary Barra manipulating GM's share price with buybacks and dividends whilst decimating the long term prospects of the company.

[hosede] 17/5/2024 17:20

IMHO options should never be awarded on the basis of the share price - it's too easy to manipulate by buy backs etc. It should be on profits in some form

[cfb2] 17/5/2024 16:38

maurice: Over 70% of shares voted in favour of Musk's payment. The Judge took the payment away and gave 10% of Musk's money to a huddle of lawyers instead, earning them a fee of over $200k an hour. She then went onto say in her judgement that Musk has already earned enough money by the increase in the value of his shares.

In the prospectus I voted in, it was clearly laid out as a number of goals and associated increases in Tesla's market capitalisation for each of his settlements. These goals were aligned with mine. These goals were achieved and I benefited from the resulting increase in share price.

In my opinion, but clearly not shared in a Delaware court, this is overruling the shareholders.

[mauricemonkey] 17/5/2024 15:46

cfb2 doesn't get that the shareholders weren't overruled. The shareholders were lied to and so weren't able to make an informed decision.
And they're still being lied to on the re-vote and the same outcome is likely even if the vote is nominally successful.

[hosede] 16/5/2024 22:31

Simon
Positive decisive management!!

[cfb2] 16/5/2024 19:25

Johnwise: The comments against the video say it all...."worthless propaganda put out by the oil companies...". Not a single OEM is actually mentioned in the video.

I don't mean to be rude but you keep spamming these weird, irrelevant videos to a number of threads on ADVFN and everyone gives them thumbs down. I'm surprised you don't get the hint.

[johnwise] 16/5/2024 19:18

VIDEO

EV Makers in Crisis: The Market’s Loud Warning You Can’t Ignore! Electric Vehicles & The 6 Signs!

[cfb2] 16/5/2024 19:09

The management bench is an interesting one. A little while ago Musk promoted the management of Tesla because during the Twitter purchase analysts were saying Musk was a key man and therefore he had to concentrate on Tesla for it to be successful. Musk wanted to play with his new Twitter toy so he didn't like that.

Then the Judge overturns his $56bn settlement (something I personally disagree with because a Judge should not be able to overrule shareholders, especially when it results in the lawyers walking away with $6bn for overruling us!).

Suddenly, Musk wants his $56bn and 25% of Tesla he therefore has to prove that he is a key man for Tesla's survival. But wait, less than a year ago Musk said Tesla operates perfectly well without him.

How does Musk have it both ways?

[johnwise] 16/5/2024 19:06

VIDEO

Broken EVs Head Straight to Junkyards As Repair Costs Are Unbearable!

[cfb2] 16/5/2024 18:32

I don't get the purpose of the X thread. It's just lots of negative news stories about Musk. If he were as uptight as Seth Abramson says he is then Musk would have had them removed.

If anyone was in control of some many huge companies or were pushing so many frontiers of science there would be a similar shed load of stories.

As for SpaceX being slow to pay some of its bills. That's bad practise and will result in those contractors not wanting to work for SpaceX again, so everyone loses out.

Try doing a similar investigation into Trump and you'll see that he doesn't pay the majority of his bill or offers 10 cents on the dollar. I think the moral of the story is if you're a big company and rich you treat everyone else like sh*t so that you stay rich and everyone else stays poor.