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TSLA 1x Tsla

5.65 (1.67%)
17 May 2024 - Closed
Delayed by 15 minutes
Name Symbol Market Type
1x Tsla LSE:TSLA London Exchange Traded Fund
  Price Change % Change Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Traded Last Trade
  5.65 1.67% 344.625 343.35 345.90 - 14 16:35:06

1x Tsla Discussion Threads

Showing 10901 to 10918 of 10925 messages
Chat Pages: 437  436  435  434  433  432  431  430  429  428  427  426  Older
Michael Dunne - 7/5/24:

When Every Car Is Made in China

Bracing for the ultimate global automotive disruption

Unthinkable, right? Think again.

China today has enough capacity to manufacture half of the world’s 80 million vehicles. By 2030, China’s capacity could climb to 75% of the world’s volume, according to Global Data.

This year China will export 6 million vehicles to more than 140 countries worldwide, blowing past Japan for global leadership.

Chinese brands like SAIC’s MG, Chery, Geely’s Volvo and BYD are leading the way, winning in every time zone from Brazil to Thailand, from the UK to Australia.

Call it the coming China car colossus.


simon gordon
hosede: Each settlement was a combination of the share price and a goal. I agree that without the goal it's easy to manipulate. Just look at Mary Barra manipulating GM's share price with buybacks and dividends whilst decimating the long term prospects of the company.
IMHO options should never be awarded on the basis of the share price - it's too easy to manipulate by buy backs etc. It should be on profits in some form
maurice: Over 70% of shares voted in favour of Musk's payment. The Judge took the payment away and gave 10% of Musk's money to a huddle of lawyers instead, earning them a fee of over $200k an hour. She then went onto say in her judgement that Musk has already earned enough money by the increase in the value of his shares.

In the prospectus I voted in, it was clearly laid out as a number of goals and associated increases in Tesla's market capitalisation for each of his settlements. These goals were aligned with mine. These goals were achieved and I benefited from the resulting increase in share price.

In my opinion, but clearly not shared in a Delaware court, this is overruling the shareholders.

cfb2 doesn't get that the shareholders weren't overruled. The shareholders were lied to and so weren't able to make an informed decision.
And they're still being lied to on the re-vote and the same outcome is likely even if the vote is nominally successful.

Positive decisive management!!

Johnwise: The comments against the video say it all...."worthless propaganda put out by the oil companies...". Not a single OEM is actually mentioned in the video.

I don't mean to be rude but you keep spamming these weird, irrelevant videos to a number of threads on ADVFN and everyone gives them thumbs down. I'm surprised you don't get the hint.


EV Makers in Crisis: The Market’s Loud Warning You Can’t Ignore! Electric Vehicles & The 6 Signs!

The management bench is an interesting one. A little while ago Musk promoted the management of Tesla because during the Twitter purchase analysts were saying Musk was a key man and therefore he had to concentrate on Tesla for it to be successful. Musk wanted to play with his new Twitter toy so he didn't like that.

Then the Judge overturns his $56bn settlement (something I personally disagree with because a Judge should not be able to overrule shareholders, especially when it results in the lawyers walking away with $6bn for overruling us!).

Suddenly, Musk wants his $56bn and 25% of Tesla he therefore has to prove that he is a key man for Tesla's survival. But wait, less than a year ago Musk said Tesla operates perfectly well without him.

How does Musk have it both ways?


Broken EVs Head Straight to Junkyards As Repair Costs Are Unbearable!

I don't get the purpose of the X thread. It's just lots of negative news stories about Musk. If he were as uptight as Seth Abramson says he is then Musk would have had them removed.

If anyone was in control of some many huge companies or were pushing so many frontiers of science there would be a similar shed load of stories.

As for SpaceX being slow to pay some of its bills. That's bad practise and will result in those contractors not wanting to work for SpaceX again, so everyone loses out.

Try doing a similar investigation into Trump and you'll see that he doesn't pay the majority of his bill or offers 10 cents on the dollar. I think the moral of the story is if you're a big company and rich you treat everyone else like sh*t so that you stay rich and everyone else stays poor.

I agree with Dan Wang's view that China, with it's manufacturing base, would come out best. However, the distribution of technology between the countries is a better mix than the manufacturing.

Trump becoming president worries me but then again both candidates are extremely poor!

In the six months since your article was written, the Chinese EV market is showing signs of overheating. They are producing substantially more vehicles than their domestic demand allows and Biden has put up 100% tariffs to protect them from being dumped in the US. Whether the US policy of promoting friend-shoring is good long term for US inflation, as it forces Americans to buy more expensive items, is questionable.

What happens to China's manufacturing and housing over the next six months will be interesting.

Superb FT podcast - 14/5/24:

China's race to tech supremacy: Shenzhen speed

How did China go from tech imitator to innovator? The FT’s James Kynge reports from Shenzhen, known as China’s Silicon Valley, where he explores the city’s vast electronics markets with inventor Noah Zerkin, an American who’s based himself in China, visits robot start-up Youibot and hears from DJI about how it became the world’s biggest drone manufacturer. Plus, Matt Sheehan, a China watcher focused on technology at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, and Qi Zhou, a venture capitalist based in Shenzhen, explain why China’s tech success stories are turning established narratives on democratic freedoms and innovation on their head.

simon gordon
Tesla doing a meme stock today - no reason for any rise -in fact as Simon has just posted the News keeps getting worse
Bloomberg - 14/5/24:

...The desire to disentangle the US from dependency on China is well-established, and bipartisan. Biden’s calibration of his tariffs to specific technologies is, apart from managing the blowback on favored sectors, designed to differentiate him from his likely opponent this November, former president Donald Trump, who threatens blanket measures.

Economists and environmentalists alike are aghast. Reshoring clean tech supply chains cannot help but be inflationary, regardless of the IRA’s branding. New tariffs on EV batteries and battery-parts, in particular, will be more meaningful, since the US took about a fifth of Chinese battery exports by value last year, second only to the European Union. EV makers in the US, including Tesla Inc., will face an additional headwind on cost for the most expensive part of the vehicle, even as IRA domestic-content measures ratchet up, too. This as they must also reignite slowing demand for their pricey cars in the US.

Meanwhile, Detroit’s halting progress on electrification, plus memories of its squandering of prior protectionism against Japanese automotive imports decades ago, raises the risk of a domestic industry that delivers only a dribble of uncompetitive EVs. Unlike China, the US strategic pivot to clean tech is patchy, partisan and competes with a legacy, truck-heavy vehicle industry that is fed by the biggest oil producing sector in the world.

Biden will nonetheless take the risk. US trade policy is inherently strategic. Remember that the IRA effectively seeks to replicate China’s industrial policy, complete with protectionism, that fostered Beijing’s lead in clean tech in the first place. The free-trade paradigm that is now crumbling was set up in the ruins of World War II; not out of altruism but in order to rebuild allies to make common cause in containing the USSR. Even at the height of paranoia about the Japanese competitive threat to Detroit, among other sectors, in the 1980s, Japan remained a critical Cold War ally — unlike China, now the Pentagon’s designated pacing threat.

Only a month ago, White House climate envoy John Podesta essentially called for the creation of a new trading system targeting China on another front; namely, “carbon dumping” via the emissions embedded in exports (see this). It remains to be seen whether the administration can persuade like-minded, generally lower carbon-intensity nations to join such an effort. The EU, with its attachment to the World Trade Organization and more ambitious green targets, is the key region in this regard.

In any case, the direction of travel in Washington is unmistakable. While the tariffs grab headlines, possibly more consequential measures are taking shape in the background, not least the Commerce Department’s inquiry into “connected vehicles,” launched in February. Given the growing overlap between data-rich driver-assistance systems and all vehicles, including EVs, this could provide a far-reaching, national security justification for targeting models merely connected with Chinese companies, regardless of where the factory is sited.

The tension between cutting emissions and cutting supply chains, always there, is now reaching the point where trade-offs are inevitable. The coming election plays a big part in where the emphasis falls in 2024, but this presents a chronic headwind to the US energy transition for years to come. This is a case where, even if you don’t take Biden literally, you should take him seriously.

simon gordon
The Govenments Global Warming SCAM Update:


Net Zero Watch: The wheels are coming off the narrative of fear

Video: Mark Levin sussed the government scam
The truth about global warming

If Zero CO2 was ever achieved every tree on the planet would die
VIDEO: A Dearth of Carbon Dr. Patrick Moore

Can't see them going bankrupt - they raised so much cash when they were the "in thing"! But I can see them losing a packet this year and maybe beyond

Bloomberg - 9/5/24:

Hungary and China Are Fellow Travelers in a $10,000 Electric Car

Viktor Orbán is learning how to bring affordable EVs to the European Union. Democracies can meet the challenge, too.

If you listen to Chinese President Xi Jinping and Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán, you might think that cheap electric cars and authoritarianism are joined at the hip. It’s up to rich democracies to prove them wrong.

Xi is visiting Hungary on the last day of his trip to Europe. In doing so, he’s returning a compliment Budapest has paid Beijing in recent years, copying China’s developmentalist model and disdain for democracy to build a burgeoning green technology supply chain in the heart of the European Union.

“On the path of Chinese-style modernization and development, we see Hungary as a traveling companion,” Xi wrote in an op-ed in Magyar Nemzet, the newspaper of the ruling Fidesz party.

Since 2019, first South Korean and then Chinese lithium-ion battery companies have flocked to Eastern Europe, taking advantage of low costs, access to the EU’s single market, and proximity to existing car factories in southern Germany and Slovakia.

Punching Above Its Weight

China is far and away the biggest battery producer. But Hungary is at number four.

Hungary alone has received about €20 billion ($21 billion) in electric vehicle investments. Factories run by Samsung SDI Co., SK On Co., and Contemporary Amperex Technology Co. have made the country of 10 million people the fourth-largest producer of lithium-ion cells after China, South Korea, and the US. BYD Co., vying with Tesla Inc. for the crown of world’s biggest EV producer, has chosen it as the location for its first European plant.

Most remarkable of all, in a world where a coming flood of cheap Chinese clean technology is being treated as an existential threat justifying tariffs, investigations, and bans, Hungary is competing on cost. If you want to be able to buy a $10,000 electric car like BYD’s Seagull outside of China, that’s going to be essential.

The average lithium-ion battery pack produced in Hungary right now comes to about $105.7 per kilowatt-hour, according to a BloombergNEF cost model. That’s only a sliver above $104.5/kWh from Chinese plants, and likely well below it after accounting for the sum a European purchaser would have to spend on transport. By contrast, Canada, Germany, the UK and US are all north of $120/kWh.

Pile 'em High

Hungary's battery prices are the only ones in the rich world that compete with China

The cost edge is crucial because some 40% of what you’re paying for when buying an electric vehicle is the battery pack. If European and US carmakers want to be able to compete with Chinese rivals on price as well as trade restrictions, they’re going to have to learn from what Hungary has done to make its power cells so cheap.

What’s the trick? The key insight is something Elon Musk recognized a decade ago in announcing the site that has become synonymous with colossal battery plants, Gigafactory One in Nevada. Mass production cuts costs by operating at epic magnitudes. If your new factory covers less than 100 hectares (247 acres) — roughly a third the size of New York’s Central Park — it’s not going to pass muster.

To play in that game, you need cheap land and excellent connections to electricity, water, and transport networks. It’s not easy to find such sites in the richer countries of Western Europe and North America, where permitting and red tape means it can take $1.7 million and several years to build (or even fail to build) a San Francisco public toilet. Giant new chemicals plants are rarely popular with the neighbors, including in Hungary. Protests, regulations, and exhaustive environmental impact reviews can prevent green technology from getting built for years, or even decades.

A cheap workforce is even more decisive. About 80% of the additional cost for batteries made in Germany over Hungary is the labor expense, according to BloombergNEF’s data. Orbán’s failure to close the income gap with Western Europe gives Hungary a potent cost advantage.


Hungary's cost advantage over Germany is mostly about land, labor, and power.

The last element is cash. Hungary’s 9% corporate tax rate is the lowest in Europe, and Orbán has also been able to use EU funds earmarked for regional development and energy transition to provide sweeteners and encourage foreign manufacturers to set up shop.

This policy mix is almost identical to what’s driven China’s industrial development for two decades. For all the rhetoric about predatory overcapacity and lavish state subsidies, the core innovation in China’s model is the Special Economic Zone: a designated region where the government provides investors with cheap land, labor, infrastructure, and modest tax breaks, and then lets them get on with things.

If Europe and North America are serious about decarbonization, they can repeat that pattern without any of the authoritarianism so precious to Xi and Orbán. Land and labor costs are also pretty low in Poland, Mexico, Romania and Bulgaria. Governments are free to offer tax and investment incentives for green technology, and should be doing so wherever possible.

Get a supply chain going, moreover, and you can establish the sort of industrial cluster that’s sprouting up now in Hungary, and develop the kind of process innovations that make China such a formidable competitor.

That’s a much more hopeful future than one where rich countries fall short on decarbonization and drift ever closer to conflict because tariffs and trade wars are cutting them off from cheap Chinese technology. On a planet heading for net zero, there is more than enough green investment needed to ensure that every part of the world gets its share.

simon gordon
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