Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[bbmsionlypostafter mk2] 17/10/2024 11:52

I've often wondered what the employees of VRS, be they 22 or 100+, do all day.

[pwhite73] 17/10/2024 11:44

I suspect a good chunk of the placing has been forward sold in the 5s. This is why MM are prepared to take stock off you at 0.035p when the placing was at 0.0325p only yesterday. There is a shortage of stock at the moment until more placing stock is dumped.

The other factor is shorting the stock by MM is slightly more difficult because there is only 746 million left not the 2.6 billion there was after the last GM.

Any positive news will exacerbate the shortage of stock and send the share price up.

[grabster] 17/10/2024 11:35

Yesterday and today 16/17 October. Hall 5 at NEC. Free entry (though parking might cost you). Versarien is there (with Keyline on Stand 170)(24sq.m, 10m frontage)


"Join us on the 16-17 October 2024 for the event that has rapidly established itself as the sector’s must-attend exhibition and the highlight of the highways industry’s annual calendar.

Highways UK brings together the people responsible for planning, developing, managing, maintaining, and future-proofing the nation's roads networks.

Our high-level conference brings together industry leaders sharing their views and expertise, our free-to-attend exhibition hosts over 375 exhibitors from across the globe and our dedicated networking app allows attendees to connect with industry experts.

We invite you to join us and exchange ideas, build your brand, form friendships and partnerships, grow your professional network, explore the future, and uncover new opportunities alongside us."



PS: On the next-but-one stand 174a is Banagher Precast (well known to Versarien). Balfour Beatty are 6 stands away on Stand 203 along with a division of Atkins.

[smokeyjohnson] 17/10/2024 11:29

The placees will need a pump now to get their shares sold. Help them sell by buying any pump

[1manchild] 17/10/2024 11:04

PWhite - I agree with you on the 'business progress' assumption.

I do not agree with you on your interpretation of how it will all pan out if there is a default on the final payment - according to the RNS.

I'm hoping there isn't a default and this is all just hot air - but as you say - we shall see

[grabster] 17/10/2024 10:49

Yesterday and today 16/17 October. Hall 5 at NEC. Free entry (though parking might cost you). Versarien is there (with Keyline on Stand 170)(24sq.m, 10m frontage)


"Join us on the 16-17 October 2024 for the event that has rapidly established itself as the sector’s must-attend exhibition and the highlight of the highways industry’s annual calendar.

Highways UK brings together the people responsible for planning, developing, managing, maintaining, and future-proofing the nation's roads networks.

Our high-level conference brings together industry leaders sharing their views and expertise, our free-to-attend exhibition hosts over 375 exhibitors from across the globe and our dedicated networking app allows attendees to connect with industry experts.

We invite you to join us and exchange ideas, build your brand, form friendships and partnerships, grow your professional network, explore the future, and uncover new opportunities alongside us."



PS: On the next-but-one stand 174a is Banagher Precast (well known to Versarien). Balfour Beatty are 6 stands away on Stand 203 along with a division of Atkins.

[pwhite73] 17/10/2024 10:30

grabster - "PS: You mentioned 100 employees. I understood that the previous headcount of 93 was being reduced to around 22."

This is not the case. AAC has been sold but Total Carbide is still part of VRS. I don't know the staff employee numbers at Total Carbide. What we do know is that there were 42 employees between the two businesses and I believe Total Carbide is the larger of the two.

RNS 28/03/24 - "It has reduced its employee base from 93 employees to 64 employees.
It is seeking to sell its mature businesses which employ 42 staff which would leave 22 staff in its core technology business."

The CFO was earning £184K when they had 93 employees in the UK plus operations in the US, China, South Korea and Spain.

Speak Later.

[grabster] 17/10/2024 10:28

By the way,
Nothing is happening on the BfH Accrington site during 2024, and is only described as "likely" to happen in 2025. So there is no money from that in the near future, and it should not be bandied as if imminent. It does have some PR value of course.

[kemche] 17/10/2024 10:27

"Its when these large construction companies consider they can commercialise Versarien's products, services and IP is when Versarien will start making commercial growth."

Soon then.

[grabster] 17/10/2024 10:23

You said "..when.."
I guess you meant "..if.."

;-)

[kemche] 17/10/2024 10:23

"The company is making commercial traction (collaborations with large UK construction companies)"

Which they were not before.

Sheesh!

[pwhite73] 17/10/2024 10:17

grapster - "To what extent is Versarien growth exceeding the dilution rate?"

It is not and that's what the problem is for retail shareholders. The company is making commercial traction (collaborations with large UK construction companies) but that is not the same as commercial growth.

Its when these large construction companies consider they can commercialise Versarien's products, services and IP is when Versarien will start making commercial growth.

[festario] 17/10/2024 10:12

£184,000 a year for 22 loss making employees, most of which are on the board Lol.

[grabster] 17/10/2024 10:08

PW: "If dilution takes place without growth that's when a problem arises."

And isn't that happening? To what extent is Versarien growth outpacing the dilution rate??? (Bearing in mind that to count as growth it needs to be actual growth, not pie-in-the-sky potential growth)

PS: You mentioned 100 employees. I understood that the previous headcount of 93 was being reduced to around 22. Presumably it is currently somewhere between those two numbers.

[the cronk] 17/10/2024 09:41

"1retirement - Retail shareholders are not affected by dilution. They are affected by a falling share price."


What???

Comedy gold from the ramping thread.

I suppose you could take the view that as the company could go out of business soon the number of shares out doesn't matter, as they will all be going to confetti heaven.

But these AIM lifestyle companies have a habit of keeping going as there always seem to be a few gerbils that will fall for the positive RNS a day before the placing two step.

It's truly astonishing that people are still falling for it!!!

[pwhite73] 17/10/2024 09:18

1manchild - "yet again from the management and the turnaround team because we would be saddled with equipment"

I do not expect VRS to accept any equipment back from MCK because they have nobody to operate it and CVD is no longer part of their business. This is what they said in the RNS.

RNS 02/08/2024 - "..in the event of default the sale agreement provides for payments already made to Versarien to be retained by the Company, with title to the assets remaining with Versarien."

All that would happen is that VRS would maintain ownership of the IP not the equipment.

Now if you look further into the RNS this is what was said.

RNS 02/08/2024 - "In agreeing to extend the final repayment date, Versarien has taken account of MCK Tech's reported business progress in CVD (Chemical Vapor Deposition) graphene applications."

Now business progress could be one of two things. The CVD is progressing at a rate that MCK need every penny to expand it or the CVD is progressing at a rate that MCK are not generating any income from it so are not going to hand over another £302k.

At this moment in time I'm inclined to think its the second of the two because developing pure graphene from CVD is highly expensive, fraught with difficulties and still not commercial.

But we shall see.

[smokeyjohnson] 17/10/2024 09:15

But actually the news probably enabled another placing to be achieved so pats on backs all round cha-ching! The sale of AAC is the same, just news to get a placing away - doesn't really matter if they receive the money or not by the sounds of it.

[1manchild] 17/10/2024 08:56

PWhite: 'I would be surprised if the Korean cash arrived by 31/10/2024. Indeed this current placing may well be to replace cash they were expecting. The Korean business is no longer part of VRS core business so if they wrote off the £302K payment I wouldn't have an issue with that.'

Although I agree with you on the core business focus - and the fact the assets would be returned if there was a failure to pay - I find this answer from you astounding!

For me and every other LTH - given that both the sales of the assets and the CVD patent license agreements to MCK tech are mentioned in the 'post period highlights' of the latest annual report - meaning it is of significant importance - if the cash does not arrive then this has to go down as a serious error of judgement yet again from the management and the turnaround team because we would be saddled with equipment that we want and need to sell. It will cost money to store the very sensitive CVD equipment and there will be serious depreciation if it is not used.

I am genuinely amazed by your thinking PWhite?

[zydecoco] 17/10/2024 08:17

So how is the price doing here?

[hpcg] 17/10/2024 08:08

bbm - small caps on the main market can do the same. Fundamentally I think public markets are the wrong place for pre-cash flow positive companies to develop. The market has little appetite to provide subsequent batches of capital in up rounds, and investors, very much my self included, don't have the skills to properly assess what a biotech or technology company is doing.

Very relatedly I also get the impression that most of the companies that come to market do so because they can't get private backing. There are plenty of listed enterprises that invest in early stage companies for normal investors to take a stake in growth. One needs diversity.

That said, yes, some AIM companies come good, and the inflection point between cash negative and cash positive is a great place to get involved.

[pwhite73] 17/10/2024 07:35

Apple started with 46 million shares in 1980. Today it has 15.2 billion shares. Dilution has been wonderful for retail shareholders who bought back in 1980 and are still holding today. It is the price of the shares that matter not the number of shares in issue.

If dilution takes place without growth that's when a problem arises. Dilution in itself is meaningless unless you have a controlling interest like 5% where you can call a EGM.

[1retirement] 17/10/2024 07:16

That's just absolutely idiotic!