Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[loglorry1] 10/1/2020 14:45

1teepee - why would we cancel a deal for not being big enough ?

Why indeed? Why not get it over the line with the option to enlarge it if things go well?

Further how can the deal "get bigger" when the basic terms are still (as of a few days ago) not agreed e.g. valuation, IP protection, even the counter party name BIGT or CIGUI.....

Not even remotely credible as far as I can see.

[hoverflyman] 10/1/2020 14:45

“Non-binding heads of terms signed with Jinan Bo Guan Building Engineering Co., Ltd ("JBG") to form a manufacturing joint venture” .. my understanding is that these chaps are not fussed about obtaining IP or control, hence they may represent a far more attractive proposition than BIGT in the near term.

Thanks for the screenshots Log, I can’t see any reason at all for excitement, not even a faint breeze in my teacup whereas after all your time and effort expended, I was beginning to anticipate a wee storm.

[rogerthegrouch] 10/1/2020 14:35

Alchemy - corrosion of pipes cost the industry $1.4bn per annum in the US alone for starters. Plenty of opportunity to go at in the O&G space

[jkok1] 10/1/2020 14:31

From the FT of 2 Jan. Looks a good explanation of the current state of play and seeming lack of sales. Good news at the end though:

Peak hype tends to follow technological discoveries. Money floods in as investors worry about missing out on the next big thing. That was the case for the miracle material graphene. Strongest, lightest and most conductive were all superlatives applied to its potential. But 15 years after its discovery at the University of Manchester, commercialisation has stalled and hype turned to disillusion.

Applications so far require only small amounts of the one atom-thick sheets of carbon. A golf ball that promises to go farther, for example, contains just 0.4 per cent of graphene. Only 600 tonnes were sold globally last year, worth about $65m. Investors piled into start-ups hoping to use graphene for everything from fishing rods to asphalt. Share prices of early entrants languishing near all-time lows suggest the revolution is still years away.

Early investors have paid dearly to find that out. Applied Graphene Materials, Haydale Graphene, Versarien and Directa Plus have all listed on London’s junior market Aim. Together they have raised a collective £120m in equity. The market valued them at a combined £500m at their respective peaks; that figure has now more than halved. Applied Graphene and Haydale are worth just a tenth of peak values. Versarien and Directa have roughly halved.

Approaches to commercialisation have varied. Applied Graphene, Haydale and Versarien focus on materials; Directa on end products such as golf balls and next-generation textiles.

These represent just a tiny portion of investments that chased the hype. The Graphene Council estimates that global capacity exceeds current supply by a factor of 10, one reason prices for some graphenes have fallen. Without a major breakthrough, that is unlikely to change. The total market could be worth about $300m by 2027, thinks the Graphene Council.

Even without the hype there are still reasons to be bullish. A 0.5 per cent share of the marine coatings sector would use 5,000 tonnes a year. The same proportion of the plastics market would be about 13m tonnes.

The progression of the internet, invented in the early 1980s, shows that technological revolutions can take decades to get going. Graphene businesses will have their day — eventually.

[simon templer junior] 10/1/2020 14:29

Peddlers of Self-Serving Disinformation Exposed!

[scrabster1] 10/1/2020 13:40

The world lead in talking about but not selling much graphene...

[melf] 10/1/2020 13:33

Yaaaaaaaawn........soooooo boring.

[alchemy] 10/1/2020 13:32

Thanks .I'm putting sand bagged figures for " early maturity" stage .£5million. I have to say with 5biggies and 40 intermediates all sand bagged the low 80p looks like it won't hold that long.I've put concrete as the highest of the big 5 with textiles next.Ideas on ratios of big five welcomed.

[loglorry1] 10/1/2020 13:26

Jeeze I've posted the screenshot of the discord group conversation @schmally that shows it clearly. Are you also a member of the flat earth society and a member of the climate change denial camp?

I see you've changed what you are accusing me of saying, in a pathetic attempt to win the argument, which is I suppose is par for the course. Ah well.

[schmally] 10/1/2020 13:22

Sorry Log, Please can you remind me exactly who (apart from you) has suggested that VRS flew anyone out to sign any agreement that trumps BIGT and then abandoned it.

Did this notion simply pop up during a conversation between yourself and your reflection, or did anyone related to VRS ever say anything even remotely suggesting this???

Please share your evidence.

[loglorry1] 10/1/2020 13:05

If VRS has a deal which trumps BIGT (whose terms must have been agreed if they flew someone out for its signing", only to abandon it at the last minute for a stunning NEW deal, surely shareholders will be happy to hear about it? I'd have though BIGT (whoever they are) would be annoyed at the rather unprofessional behavior but this does sound like material news, doesn't it?

The shares are slipping whilst great news is being held back, according to Neill on the DSICORD group. All he has to do is explain it to his NOMAD and release it officially, surely?

BTW I assume you are happy with my screenshots @schmally and can see why I stated what I did. No need to apologise we all make mistakes.

[club sandwich] 10/1/2020 12:58

price sensitive info, much?

[1teepee] 10/1/2020 12:57

I heard we are cancelling the oil and gas because the deal wasn't big enough

[1teepee] 10/1/2020 12:56

Well said. You have passed the test, you are not a sheep. Only thing I really question is how much time and text you use to respond to people just having a laugh. We do agree with buying versarien and being lth though;)

[the skipper] 10/1/2020 12:55

If the product takes off with a company like Schlumberger or Halliburton behind it the revenues could be potentially enormous as every decent company in the industry would want it Alchemy. Very difficult to put figures on it at this stage though.

[club sandwich] 10/1/2020 12:45

infinite mate, infinite. just like everything else they're supposed to be working on. far too large to be contained by mere numbers or words, that's why we never hear about any of it. it exists alright, definitely, it's just to big to be expressed...

[alchemy] 10/1/2020 12:45

I've got a little way on the spreadsheet. Anyone and ideas of the scope in the Oil and Gas field?

[alchemy] 10/1/2020 12:42

Well I've got a little way on this vast spreadsheet.Anybody hazard an estimate on Oil and Gas revues in two years time.

[the skipper] 10/1/2020 12:37

Your avatar really gives the game away TW as you just love using the phrase ‘bulletin board morons’ don’t you? If you weren’t such an expert money launderer I am sure that NR and many others would sue you for slander. Warning to others:don’t even click on his links as the count only boosts his site’s ratings on various search engines and his already grossly inflated ego.

[schmally] 10/1/2020 11:59

j1nxed,

Thanks for your post. It's refreshing for unfamiliar posters on this thread to present some balanced and rational discussion topics. I'd agree on most aspects regarding the different market focus for both and the risks of each strategy.

One thing I would highlight, is that whilst the Martin Rea investment is an indication of some level of confidence in the potential high volume commercialisation of NX's product from their side (irrespective of the quality of the product), their investment would at face value appear to potentially limit wider market opportunities for NX.

Given they will potentially be supplying to a major investor currently holding 25% of the shares with significant influence, this could potentially result in exclusivity agreements having to be agreed, or the perception of CoI's if NX want to supply any of Martin Rea's competitors in future. If they don't have easy access to the whole market, then high volume low margin sales may become a challenge in terms of being able to secure sufficient market share to sell sufficient volume. I also believe that if Martine Rea's competitors were uncomfortable sourcing from NX, then IMO it will be easier for new high volume (Carbon Black replacement) graphene companies to enter the market, given the less challenging production processes involved (albeit production at the thousands of tonne level may take time to achieve for newer entrants).

I see nothing wrong with NX as a business following my initial high level analysis and there is plenty of space for VRS, NX and many others for that matter. I do however think they will be occupying very different segments of the market than VRS for many years to come, with little chance of having to compete in any specific markets either are targeting.

I'll remain open minded with regards to competitors in the graphene space as new markets begin to take shape. I'm happy with my exposure to VRS currently and will remain so, unless significant commercialisation is delayed beyond the next 6-12 months. But even then the wider picture will need to be evaluated in terms of whether any other prospects in the market appear better placed at that time.

As an aside, I'm assuming you're a genuine investor or are considering options in the space. If so, it would be great if Loggy could take note and present his topics for discussion in a similar vein.

[club sandwich] 10/1/2020 11:58

so it was planned for Tuesday, not today, my apologies.

too busy why?

[russ42] 10/1/2020 11:41

Well someones buying as i offered a dummy sell of £100000 worth and they offered 80

[kemorkid] 10/1/2020 11:25

Just got this regarding Northern Ireland Investor Day.
Thank for your email to Neill.
This just confirms that earlier today, sadly, Neill needed to postpone an Investor Lunch and visit to the University of Ulster that we had scheduled for Tuesday, in Belfast.

We will organise a new date in due course and when this is promoted, I will ensure you are on the distribution list.
Many thanks for your interest and we wish you all the best for 2020.
Nigel