Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[ellissj] 26/2/2019 07:10

Game moving along nicely here imo - into the nitty gritty ? Thx peter jay for valuable contribution and good luck. Aimo. Best ellis

Yi read Natural Sciences at Cambridge University, majoring in chemistry, and is completing her PhD in organic chemistry at University College London, alongside her work for the UK Government. Her previous roles in Government have included working with the DIT's London and Devolved Administrations teams, where she provided analytical insights to help achieve foreign direct investment targets. Following this, she was a Private Secretary for ex-BEIS Minister Lord Prior, covering technology, rail and materials. Her most recent role was as a Senior Policy Adviser for the BEIS Future Sectors team, where she led the team's international portfolio, pushing forward the Government's robotics and drones agenda, and was responsible for publishing the artificial intelligence sector deal as part of the Government's industrial strategy to put the UK at the forefront of the AI and data-driven economy.

[jointer13] 26/2/2019 07:10

very good news … looks like peter has done his bit and now to the next stage.

[rafboy] 26/2/2019 07:09

At least he has been replaced so not bad news either.

[realcooltrader] 26/2/2019 07:08

Good nonetheless, must help that she is Chinese.

[mj10] 26/2/2019 07:07

not the news we were looking for

[chumbo1] 26/2/2019 07:06

26 February 2019Versarien plc("Versarien" or the "Company")Appointment of BEIS SecondeeVersarien plc (AIM: VRS), the advanced materials engineering group, is pleased to announce that Yi Luo is joining Versarien on secondment from the UK Government's Department for Business, Energy & Industrial Strategy ("BEIS") as Deputy Head of International Strategy and Government Relations. Yi will replace Peter Jay who is returning to the Department for International Trade ("DIT") to take up a new senior role. Yi will be focussed on progressing the Company's international expansion, particularly in China, working alongside Matt Walker who has been on secondment to Versarien from the DIT since May 2018. Yi read Natural Sciences at Cambridge University, majoring in chemistry, and is completing her PhD in organic chemistry at University College London, alongside her work for the UK Government. Her previous roles in Government have included working with the DIT's London and Devolved Administrations teams, where she provided analytical insights to help achieve foreign direct investment targets. Following this, she was a Private Secretary for ex-BEIS Minister Lord Prior, covering technology, rail and materials. Her most recent role was as a Senior Policy Adviser for the BEIS Future Sectors team, where she led the team's international portfolio, pushing forward the Government's robotics and drones agenda, and was responsible for publishing the artificial intelligence sector deal as part of the Government's industrial strategy to put the UK at the forefront of the AI and data-driven economy. Neill Ricketts, CEO of Versarien, commented: "I would like to thank Peter for his significant contribution to Versarien over the last six months, particularly in relation to the development of our business in China. During that period we have made substantial progress in China through entering into partnerships with a number of leading manufacturers across a variety of sectors, together with securing formal relationships with Chinese provincial government bodies."I look forward to Versarien benefiting from Yi's skills and experience to help further progress both our existing Chinese relationships and others that we are discussing. I would again like to thank the BEIS and DIT for their support and I am confident that Versarien's plans in China and globally will contribute to DIT's goal of ensuring there is an economic benefit to the UK from our overseas activities."

[ridicule] 26/2/2019 06:57

Thanks for your further input Hew. Fully agree. I also think Mike Brenner makes some good points on exclusivity. While VRS do not lock themselves into exclusivity which would constrain their room for manoeuvre, they are exclusive in which partners they tend to go with - market leaders in any given vertical!! Neill has said in the past, we do not know what he knows and we do not see what business is not pursued, but he has inferred that they do not run with every approach.

[hew] 26/2/2019 06:29

Ridicule,it's gratifying to have support from one of the heavier weights around here. You agreed with much that I said - well I agree with all that you said!

In that you read that I might be implying something negative for the share price, clearly I didn't express myself as well as I intended. I meant the reverse!

Deliberately I did not refer to share price, or relate it to my theme that initial revenues from the five priority deals are likely to cover only a small part of their overall scale - but that does not matter!

I thought mentioning share price would muddy the water on my main point: initial revenues declared may be small but they can't be used to reflect the value of the deal, or what it should mean to the VRS enterprise and consequently its share price - and we should not be taken aback by whatever revenues are disclosed, or perhaps not disclosed, for that reason.

Indeed, if I may borrow from your words: "dramatically underpin enterprise value ......the gap between fundamental value and enterprise (hope) value becomes much more firmly underpinned when multi-year contracts are in place, even if there are no large upfront payments to bring the p/e down."

Thanks for prompting me to clarify!

[shavian] 26/2/2019 00:54

On second thoughts..more digging.

See below for an interesting presentation from battery mineral miner CleanTeq in NSW. Interesting for its stats on battery production ramp-up worldwide.



The presentation does not say so, but CleanTeq is in collaboration with Ionic Industries, spun out from Monash University in Melbourne, on the development of graphene solid state batteries for the next generation, but I don’t think they are nearly as far along the road as VRS/Gnanomat.

And now it’s goodnight from me, and goodnight from anyone else on the midnight patrol.
Zzzzzz

[mikebrenner] 26/2/2019 00:31

They have chosen quasi exclusivity by focusing on progressing a major player in each application vertical esp in China with their collabs. Then in ROW whilst they seemed to have engaged more partners in multiple sectors again there is a clear trend to working with 1 or 2 major partners in each application area. The VrS offer will likely be the many months / years ramp up time for new partners / competitors rather than giving on exclusivity ... IMO in the grand scheme of things exclusivity is a small part of the negotiation and for those taking polygrene there will be none. For those integrating powders and inks then will be dependent on how much VRS know about end application developed - in a number of these cases they have v little visibility so not on the table.

[ridicule] 26/2/2019 00:22

Well said Shav. I think we have all been impressed by the way NR and the team have evaded any exclusivity lock in so far. I feel sure NR will ensure that continues. The US news might be interesting by the sound of things from Zina Cinker.

[shavian] 26/2/2019 00:07

I echo that Rid. It seems to me that some of these global corporations would want VRS for themselves, and may have already offered the big up-front money of which you speak in order to nail us down. If so, it’s clear to me that Neill and Chris will have been stonewalling these offers in the name of independence. Pure speculation on my part, of course. We are so lucky. What will the morrow bring us? G’night all

[ridicule] 25/2/2019 23:35

Hew, I agree with much of what you say. I think I also inferred initial big up front money would entail inward investment, partnering or licensing, rather than Contract money, which will be spread over time against milestone payments as you say. Where I would disagree is that a multi-year contract with extended payment milestones would not dramatically underpin enterprise value and ensure a rapid rise in the share price. It is true earnings are the driver of p/e but the gap between fundamental value and enterprise (hope) value becomes much more firmly underpinned when multi-year contracts are in place, even if there are no large upfront payments to bring the p/e down. This is particularly true when we can expect wave after wave of such contracts going forward. Hence my earlier comment that VRS will deliver many years of exciting growth. I think we will see a rapid and sustained rise in the share price once the first big order comes, almost regardless of the size of the initial contract payments for all the reasons that I outline here.

[redchef] 25/2/2019 23:13

Is it my imagination or has it gone very quiet on twitter this evening

[maisto] 25/2/2019 23:00

Great posts tonight. Ridicule, some of your recent posts are worth framing and putting on the wall. Thank you sir. Campbed - fair enough. Myrl, I feel your pain. As for me, I'm excited. But equally content with waiting for the right time to come... when we least expect it.

[grabster] 25/2/2019 22:35

What time is Zina's announcement expected to emerge tomorrow? Midnight tonight local time there? 7am local time there?

[fireball xl5] 25/2/2019 22:34

The Polygrene range has been developed for applications requiring increased mechanical performance over standard polymers and allows for improvements in properties such as:


-- Tensile modulus and strength
-- Flexural modulus and strength
-- Compressive modulus and strength
-- Impact strength
-- Elongation at break
-- Hardness
-- Flammability
Where next?

[harrysol] 25/2/2019 22:26

Good evening 2dinvestor - NGA. I looking forward to what might be announced. As for VRS, we know the collaborations are coming up to a maturity and and we should see the rewards come to VRS. Exciting times ahead for graphene and VRS.

[2dinvestor] 25/2/2019 21:49

The tweet that caught my interest was Zina Jarrahi Cinker , Director of NGA - I will be sharing some exciting news tomorrow! Stay TunedSneak peak of what's to come and where! #graphene #ngaexpo https://t.co/0coAwwqdlb

[hew] 25/2/2019 21:45

Re some previous posts mentioning deals and revenues, as a long term investor - for a few more years anyway - I’m relaxed about an RNS on the “First Big Deal” likely not being very specific on revenues. Not in any "£100m in the bank for Christmas" kind of way at least, nor having numbers that will allow a meaningful current p/e etc. to be calculated - I emphasise meaningful. And I believe it's important to be prepared for that. (China another matter - who knows what there.)

Given its huge importance, I am confident it will contain plenty of solid good news, with whatever numbers there are being reassuring. Neill wouldn’t put it out otherwise. (He said/tweeted not long ago that he would prefer to report small losses than small profits.)

The five big-deal companies, being such companies, will surely want a plan that reflects the future, with revenues paid over a timescale. Some significant down payment naturally, but likely a fraction of the whole deal envisaged. If manufacturing is delegated to the company as part of the deal, then establishment costs will have been recognised in the finances. Likely too is that when end products are seen as large numbers of relatively small items, the revenues will be aligned and timed with those sales.

There may be inward financial investment (as has been mentioned) or, as Neill said to IG, JVs or licencing involved. Apart from down payments, the initial revenues again would be relatively a small part of the expected future whole.

Reflecting Neill’s underlying strategy and aims - as demonstrated already - I don’t see him wanting VRS to depend on making a succession of one off sales to a succession of buyers (Fullerex might handle such); rather he is intent on building close relationships with key players across a range of sectors - his five priorities in play. That is absolutely right IMO, but short term, the revenues will reflect that.

Lastly, others might comment on how “material effect" rules would apply, but might it be possible that with perhaps three of the five big deals likely within 6 months, that significant financial details about how they will impact this year's revenue will be held back until a combination can be released for the three deals as a whole?

Having written these thoughts, I'm very conscious that a Note is pending - perhaps it will blow them all away.......

EDIT: Please also see 61452 below.

[chumbo1] 25/2/2019 21:28

Surprise surprise

[markyboy5] 25/2/2019 21:26

1rookie Only put 3 posts on , all tonight no profile

[harrysol] 25/2/2019 21:22

Desflurane - the reason I shared the discount code was to save advfn colleagues some money. If you shop around and do 2-3 minutes searching on Google, you'll find discount codes for some of the biggest retailers in UK.

[2dinvestor] 25/2/2019 21:21

The bobsleigh tie up I'd also great PR and like the headphones showcases graphenes potential.