Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[ridicule] 17/2/2019 15:18

Fest you and I have similar holdings I suspect. I am one who thinks this thread should be open to all views and I would much prefer that you express your views here, rather than take up Niell’s Valuable time on emails. One post here today inferred that a bulletin board poster could not be trusted. Stand fast the shorters like Loglorry, I have always worked on the principle that people on here express sincerely held views. We are In Lanzarote as I have posted. We had a meal the other evening in a restaurant that only took cash. We did not know this and could not pay. Come and pay tomorrow said the proprietor. Such trust is rare but it gives one wonderful feeling when it occurs.

Serratia, great wife story. Just the same here, except my position is in stereo, no Nanene and no Brexit. What is a man to do?

[festario] 17/2/2019 15:09

Ellis, you state... Fest, re your post with '20 more quotes' including a general accusation against neill.I've wracked my brains, but I've no idea what you're referring to.

[festario] 17/2/2019 15:01

Ridicule, yes, that's the crux... the explosive increase of operational activity and revenue generation. That's why I hold my shares.But each time it feels close, we get a rather bland company statement which makes it feel like it's much further away.

[festario] 17/2/2019 14:58

Meganxmas, a million? According to you I don't hold any shares, or I'm a shorter or suchlike. So why do you care?Those of you who are tired of seeing my raise my concerns on here should simply filter me. Then you don't need to waste your valuable time replying.Others, who have a slightly more enquiring mind, feel free to discuss with me the disparity between where we were led to believe we'd be by now, based on statements made over the last 15 months.Those of you who say you are happy with progress.... in your heart of hearts if you had known that Jinan would not have been operational after 13 months, you wouldn't have sold your shares at 118p?

[ridicule] 17/2/2019 14:55

alfie4048 I quoted a p/e of 15 as a median (typical) example to support the point I was making in my post. A p/e of 60 is something to be scared of as an entry point. A p/e of 1 means that the price per share equals the profit per share. Taking the CS lower prediction of £5 per share price then a p/e of 15 means one is paying 15 times the profit or earnings to buy the share. The p/e is the ratio that indicates how expensive the share is to buy. As profits rise so do earnings per share, but the P/E ratio should not rise dramatically even though the share price itself will. In hi-tech shares, p/es can range from 12 -30 tops. 60 is a kamakazi price to buy at and no institution would touch VRS at those levels.

The point I was making over CS’s rude reproach to SG was that, even at a share price of £5, that was based on p/e of 15,a price at the lower end of some of CS’s wilder share price predictions, the VRS sales would have to be at the levels SG was postulating.

This debate is the essence of the current VRS share price dip. The price is way beyond what the results to date can justify in p/e terms, which is why it is subject to weakness. The potential enterprise or ‘hope’ value is enormous, however, and that is why I am invested and it is where the Unicorns roam. Massive turnover increase in a very short time period, with little warning, just as SG predicts is what will make it happen. That is why I am here.

[meganxmas] 17/2/2019 14:39

Fest have to agree with Ellisj ask your questions directly to NR via email. I think that rehashing your concerns on ADVFN isn't really fair on the company and imo hints at motives somewhat different to what you have stated. So lance the festering boil ... excuse the pun ... and ask via email. I'm sure NR will state where he cannot answer if confidentiality prevails. Constantly talking your million into a lower value surely doesn't make sense !! And if you were wanting debate I think you have had it in bucketfills. Time to move on or move off.

[ellissj] 17/2/2019 14:25

Fest - re your post with '20 more quotes' including a general accusation against neill; from the examples you provided, imo they have been answered before on here, and by neill (iso imminent etc). Reasonably to my mind - not that i had issues. But Obviously not to yours - which is fair enough. My point is, you've said it all before, (and at 60p?) and clearly no amount of answers can satisfy you on here - logically it's time to get it from the horses mouth. Especially as neill has offered has he not - check his replies to you again ? Why not Take his kind offer up sir - lance that boil ! I'm sure you'll feel much better for doing so. I'm not on twitter btw. Hope this helps. Aimo. Best ellis

[luckykids] 17/2/2019 13:18

GEIC The thing that puzzles me is a lot of British money and know-how has gone into this project. Yet here we are inviting cos from round the world to come and take advantage of our expertise. FGR. Tongshu and maybe others. Are we going to be giving away one of VRS biggest advantages, the network and knowledge in Manchester.Won't it help tongshu to progress some of this stuff on its own.I am not quite as sanguine perhaps as Neil on this. Let's hope he is in a better position to judge.

[festario] 17/2/2019 12:57

Ellis, so in other words, you are conceding that the issues I raise can not find an answer on here? So I shouldn't raise them? With this being the most authoritative discussion board in the world concerning this company, that's a most terrible and shocking admission Sir.I have discussed things with Neill on email in the past, but are you really encouraging me to take up the time of the CEO of a listed company when he really should have bigger things to do?If you don't want me here, let me take my points to the private Twitter group then?But not one member has yet shown the integrity to invite me.

[ellissj] 17/2/2019 12:41

Fest, tbh - there seems to be little value in chewing over the same fat on this BB. Strenous efforts have been made by many posters. I see on twitter a suggestion has been made to contact neill by email. He has already made an offer to this effect yesterday ? For everyones sake, including your own, wouldn't it be a sound idea to take all your concerns up with him ? It's seems to be a sensible course of action at this juncture ? Sincerely ellis

[luckykids] 17/2/2019 12:37

Serratia, would have been nice if she said you darling aww

[alchemy] 17/2/2019 12:26

Aircraft in 1903. Cross channel demonstration 1909.Acceleration due to WW1.Passenger Services in converted Vimy Bombers c 1920.So when was our 1903 ?, have we passed 1909 ?( I'd say yes to that , but who am I to lead the witness).We don't seem to need wars to accelerate developments these days , so where are we? 1919?

[spike_1] 17/2/2019 12:25

Fest:
The article I mentioned has absolutely NOTHING to do with VRS, it is purely an historical perspective as to how long new ideas take to reach acceptance.

With each new method of communication, and ever increasing speed of communication and 'progress' an historical perspective is just that, but what does is explain - hopefully - to those that are impatient, that change takes time.

Let's not forget graphene has been going 15 years already and is on the cusp of widespread use.

You appear - just like CS to be looking for any and all excuses to criticise Neill and VRS.

Best wishes - Mike

[ellissj] 17/2/2019 12:24

Best wishes to you and your family fest. Best ellis

[ellissj] 17/2/2019 12:11

I also see that cw article mentions ev's and battery boxes. Vrs already in the game re axia collab rns ? Aimo. Best ellis

"Electric Vehicle applications - Versarien's Graphinks will be used to add smart systems to a composite electric vehicle battery tray and Versarien's Nanene will be used to improve the properties of the composite structure.  The battery tray is being developed with automotive battery system manufacturers for use by global automotive OEMs."

[hermanngoring] 17/2/2019 12:01

Tim Kempster
‏

@timkempster
42s43 seconds ago
More Tim Kempster Retweeted BrianG
#VRS needs to book real material Graphene sales not just talk, talk, talk. In Sep Dr. Andrew Deakin (CTE) was excited about the potential with AXIA … . So excited he then left #VRS to go back to his old job! Perhaps this is why hxxps://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Reviews/Versarien-Technologies-Reviews-E1297261.htm … (2016)

[hermanngoring] 17/2/2019 12:01

Tim Kempster
‏

@timkempster
42s43 seconds ago
More Tim Kempster Retweeted BrianG
#VRS needs to book real material Graphene sales not just talk, talk, talk. In Sep Dr. Andrew Deakin (CTE) was excited about the potential with AXIA … . So excited he then left #VRS to go back to his old job! Perhaps this is why hxxps://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Reviews/Versarien-Technologies-Reviews-E1297261.htm … (2016)

[spike_1] 17/2/2019 11:56

Really good - very readable - article this morning retweeted on Neill's Twitter:

When you change the world and nobody notices:

Last Para:
"When innovation is measured generationally, results shouldn’t be measured quarterly. History is the true story of how long, messy, and chaotic change can be. The stock market is the hilarious story of millions of people expecting current companies to perform quickly, orderly, and cleanly. The gap between reality and expectations explains untold frustration."



Have a great day one and all - Mike

[phoenixs] 17/2/2019 11:55

Serratia. I had the same sort of conversation with my wife recently but I left out the word “anything̶1;. Thought that may be a little close to home and could get me in a whole load of trouble😂

[serratia] 17/2/2019 11:22

We took a flight last month and my wife said before we set off can we have a Graphene free weeks holiday. I corrected her it's called Nanene.
We got on the plane, it didn't last long - I said there's a prize for you if you can see anything in this plane's interior that can't be improved with Nanene.

[ellissj] 17/2/2019 11:04

Interesting news re airbus hattie :) funnily enough was reading this cw article from 2016 this morning. Bottom praragraph is optimistic about composites going forward. Meantimes, vrs have current interest re +nanene enhanced aircraft interior parts. AImo. Best ellis

'The composites super cycle — are we still living the dream? Predicted before the 2008 recessionary crash, the super cycle’s foundations were to be built on an increasing use of composites in aircraft. How did it play out?'

Columns Post: 3/30/2016

JAMES AUSTIN

"For many advanced economies, 2015 was a landmark year. GDP finally recovered to levels greater than pre-crash for many major composites economies, including the US, UK, Germany, Japan, Italy and France. The consensus is that the world’s economic recovery, whilst not 100% secured, is heading in the right direction.

Many in the composites industry will recall the times before the financial crisis of 2008. A standout memory for me was attending the 2007 CompositesWorld Investor Conference in New York, where industry sages, among them, Paul Pendorf from AMT II Corp. (Ft. Myers, FL, US) and Miki Dan from McGladry Capital Markets LLC (Costa Mesa, CA, US) painted a picture of an industry with unprecedented growth opportunities, driven foremost by a need to make aircraft and cars more fuel-efficient. Other factors were wind turbine blade construction, which was on the apparent cusp of turning all-carbon. New opportunities, such as CNG fuel tanks and composite cores for electrical transmission lines, were at the vanguard of a new consumption dynamic for composites, and especially high-value carbon fiber materials.

At the conference, Merrill Lynch presented an analysis of the future of composites companies involved in the aerospace industry that was very positive. Indeed, that forecast was my first introduction to the term super cycle, used to describe a perennially sunny outlook for the world’s advanced composite market over a sustained period of many years, insulated from the usual economic turbulence by highly positive economic and market conditions.

The super cycle’s foundations were to be built on an increasing use of composites in aircraft, which, in turn, were forecast to be built in increasingly greater numbers. The peak in growth was to coincide with the forecast introduction of redesigned narrowbody Boeing 737 and Airbus A320 aircraft families with 50% composite content. This was to follow an already growing market, driven by new composites-intensive widebody models (the Boeing 787 and Airbus A350 XWB), plus increased composites penetration into aeroengines, private jets, helicopters and more. The predicted peak of the super cycle was expected in 2016!

Prior to 2007, in the context of a predicted sustained boom in the use of composite materials, the share prices of the variety of companies involved in the composites supply chain looked like good value for the money. We were told that anyone taking a long-term view and investing in shares of publicly listed companies, such as Hexcel, ;Toray, Zoltek and Owens Corning, for example, would make considerable gains. And, in fact, had they held on to those shares until 2015, they would have made a nice return.

Merrill Lynch, however, did not emerge unscathed from the credit crunch: It was taken over by the Bank of America, which, 
in turn, was bailed out by the US government. No super cycle for them. But it is interesting to reflect on the predictions of that 2007 conference and what actually came to pass. Generally, the predictions were accurate for CNG tanks and other pressure vessels, and largely correct for the aerospace market. They were too optimistic, however, for the wind energy market and, in my view, too pessimistic for the automotive industry. In aerospace, aircraft building has, indeed, accelerated — dramatically more so than anticipated. Boeing and Airbus have introduced updated versions of their narrowbody ranges, in the 737 MAX and A320neo, with higher composites content. However, the introduction of the much-anticipated redesigned narrowbodies — the landmark opportunity for composites in the medium term — is now expected to come much later, in the 2030s or beyond. Further, the percentage of composites this represents is at issue. Although the wings are certain to be of composite construction, the practicality and feasibility of composite fuselages on narrowbodies is currently in dispute. It remains to be seen if Bombardier’s CSeries and Mitsubishi’s MRJ regional jets will influence the market dynamics. At the moment, all evidence points against this, but there could be a dramatic change should these composites-intensive models get some traction.

In general, I am very positive about our industry’s prospects. We face some short-term challenges, as low oil prices take the pressure off those charged with finding immediate weight-saving solutions. But I believe the trend is toward wider adoption of composite structures when oil prices are low, because relatively lower cost composite materials (both fiber and resin are petroleum-based) stimulate greater adoption rates. Automakers will have a huge influence in this respect, because they need to reduce weight in order to curb emissions, the limits of which have been government-mandated. This will surely usher in a new adoption dynamic, which will give overall impetus to our industry."