Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[ellissj] 16/2/2019 19:14

No idea alchemy, just using that as an example of a potential use. That article is from 2011 btw. But i see there is a live faraday project (not vrs) using the same idea, graphene/silicon anode in li-ion batteries. Best ellis

[ridicule] 16/2/2019 18:57

SG is no less unreal than your projections of £5 per share + in a similar timescale Club. Has your brain worked out, with circa 154m shares in issue, how much profit and turnover VRS would need to make to reach £5 per share on a p/e of, say 15? You never cease to amaze Club. You are attacking SG for the very projections that are required to make your own forecasts come true.

[elbillo] 16/2/2019 18:35

Ellis. Post 59778. May I suggest everyone read and digest that post, then put what VRS are hopefully achieving into perspective.

A VRS share is for life not just for today.

[alchemy] 16/2/2019 18:05

Crumbs that'd help motor transport transfer to electric power!Would it be nanene called upon , for best results?

[ellissj] 16/2/2019 16:32

"Graphene and Silicon sheets used to make Lithium-ion batteries with 10 times the capacity and charge speed."

"Researchers from the McCormick School of Engineering and Applied Science developed a new anode for lithium-ion batteries - which makes them hold a charge up to 10 times greater than current design - and also charge 10 times faster. They say that this new technology could be commercialized within 3-5 years.

The new electrode is made from sandwiched layers of silicon and graphene sheets. This allows for a greater number of lithium atoms in the electrode while utilizing the flexibility of the graphene sheets to accommodate the volume changes of silicon during use. The new design also uses a chemical oxidation process to create small holes (10 to 20 nanometers) in the graphene sheets -- termed "in-plane defects" -- so the lithium ions would have a "shortcut" into the anode and be stored there by reaction with silicon. This reduced the time it takes the battery to recharge by up to 10 times.

The next step for this research is to study the cathode - which may enable further enhances to the battery's performance."

[club sandwich] 16/2/2019 16:13

So Graham thinks that in short order VRS will go from a company turning over £5.22m in a Half to revenues of anywhere between £50m and £500m a year. Maybe even billions!

Think someone forgot to take their anti-psychotics again this morning...

[ellissj] 16/2/2019 16:06

"Multifunctional Graphene Sheets Embedded in Silicone Encapsulant for Superior Performance of Light-Emitting Diodes.."

[woodpeckers] 16/2/2019 15:43

superg, I picked up that silicon at the GEIC and was chatting to Sam about it. He pointed out that it was much lighter than the non enhanced version but what struck me and I mentioned it to him was that though it was still very flexible it was much less floppy ...afraid I couldn't work out the intended use though I'm sure there will be plenty....

[ellissj] 16/2/2019 15:32

Lol indeed hew, re economists - it's how they make a living ! Oh yes i agree, an older article but i found the debt perespective interesting ie its nature and therefore effect. Well yes, we hope for speedy trade dispute resolutions and worldwide interest in vrs to continue to grow. Aimo. Best ellis

[hew] 16/2/2019 15:22

Thanks Ellis. Interesting contrast, though when did two economists ever agree?!

I do note that article is a year old, and global economics have moved on - er, I should probably say down! Fair to say a lot more detail in the Inv Chron too. Other things it refers to are that the average Chinese person is no longer living lavishly, rising unemployment and stagnant wages.

Before it appears I have become a deramper - I certainly am not, a heavy investment in - I'd better emphasise that growing and developing their economy through a downturn, especially re tech, could add to their want for graphene rather that reduce it. Also our govts wish to develop trade links there (EDIT: 4% of exports, 7% of imports at the moment) is evident, whatever variety of Brexit, and short term turbulence.

Edit: I've added the link to my previous post, though I think only subscribers can access.

[club sandwich] 16/2/2019 15:05

Hammond's trade talks in China this weekend called off after that utter tw*t Williamson shot his mouth off. Doubt we'll see a China production deal announced until things have calmed down - even assuming there's one to announce, and that's unlikely.

[ellissj] 16/2/2019 15:02

Good post hew. This nyt article gives a different slant on that high china debt to gdp view - reframing it. Either way, we know trade wars are now affecting economic outlook, which gives greater impetus to resolving them imo. In this regard mood music us/china talks has improved this week, and dow further up in response. By the chinese newsflow -
They seem very keen on vrs 2D products, so hopefully new tech which sits nicely within their 2025 policy aims should do well. Aimo. Best ellis

China’s Economy Is Not Normal. It Doesn’t Have to Be.By Yukon Huang

March 13, 2018

"WASHINGTON — China’s extraordinary growth over the past few decades has spawned two major lines of analysis. One school of thought holds that China is a rising economic power poised to conquer the world. The other argues that China’s economy has become so distorted that it is bound to collapse or, at least, as a former United States Treasury secretary suggested, “regress to the mean.”

Both views are mistaken...."

[dickiebird2] 16/2/2019 14:37

You know the old saying if you can't stand the heat stay out of the KITCHEN !!!!

[hew] 16/2/2019 14:32

It's an overview, but relevant to our Chinese involvements is the feature article in the current (15-21 Feb) Investors Chronicle. Online too, for subscribers.

It's headed "Fragile", is about China, and about "the looming debt crisis" from a global view. It covers the key sectors of industry, including engineering, but not high tech explicitly. I can imagine that high tech is a special case that could stand outside the worrying picture painted overall. A dramatic chart compares the much faster rate of increase in debt compared with the size of their economy over recent years. Well worth reading IMO -and with reference to Ellis's 59747 above - but hard to summarize. From the gloom overall, fair to give two quotes: "If China hits the wall, it is likely to take others down with it" and "UK bank ties "exceed exposures to the US, Euro area, Japan and Korea combined"".

I'm hoping the US/China trade situation is resolved positively soon. Re VRS, I believe that direct effects would be limited because it is a "unique" case, but if Chinese - hence others - overall industrial demand slows, some downstream effects, I guess.

[superg1] 16/2/2019 14:27

BTW on my glass half full (with lots more research than others) I'm thinking the big 5 lining up are between £10 mill to £100 mill each in terms of revenue (for starters).

That may be cautious as the array of what some want to do with graphene could amount to billions at their end of the deal.

If some want to look at the 3 tonne machine and multiply the grams by the suspected price, small orders and bigger orders and work out VRS revenue based on that, then they are way off down the wrong path imo.

VRS don't need strategic investment from those others (as suggested in news) to supply them a few 100 kgs. Why would such big names seek to take a stake for that.

[superg1] 16/2/2019 14:20

Rid

I have been to most VRS events and at GEIC their were some new raw products.

I was able to recognise some and have linked them to the big names.

EG

The graphene glass fibre enhanced pellets and other polymers which I believe I can directly link to the Aecom project.

The graphene ink loaded material which no doubt is linked to the apparel collaboration.

The graphene ink Plower heating panel, which I could link to both Axia and Tunghsu but I favour Tunghsu for now as they specify graphene heating panels for a project which incorporate water based graphene ink.

Tunghsu see those heating panels as a way to reduce coal for call fired power for heating.

It's Tunghsu saying water based graphene ink not VRS but that is what VRS do.

The one I'm trying to catch up on (if anyone spotted it) is the graphene enhanced silicon sheets. Obviously I'd link that to the company or a similar company. I already have an idea of what industry it is for. Then add in that on GEIc day we were told not all big name are in collaborations and they are just moving to testing and getting on with it.

So as that was there as a new product and I can clearly link the others, then there is something lurking re that silicon to imo.

Other than that my head is spinning re huge others that I can't quite put my finger on yet and I have little time to try and work it out.

[serratia] 16/2/2019 14:16

Dispersing in polymers is not straightforward. You don't just say here's how to mix Nanene in say HDPE etc. Not all polymers are used as a single product. In some cases multiple polymers are mixed in the customers end product. The dispersion method would I presume have to account for these variations in the mix.

[ellissj] 16/2/2019 14:13

Some informed opinion re timescales and the extensive testing that went into the inov-8 graphene oxide trainer. (Posted once already !) Best ellis

ellissj - 15 Feb 2019 - 15:59:37 - 59640 of 59762The phrase below (in that article) was telling for me. And chimes with those who commented that product development in collabs takes time. Given this, vrs are doing very well in targeting 5 firms for early orders. Updates soon hopefully. But Patiently waiting and holding here. Aimo. Best ellis.

"..Through intensive research, hundreds of prototypes, and thousands of hours of testing in both the field and laboratory, athletes now no longer need to compromise..."

[chumbo1] 16/2/2019 13:58

Dispersing graphene properly within a polymer requires expertise.

[ewads] 16/2/2019 13:50

Ridicule. Sorry if I misinterpret but why would the partner company entrust their product to VRS to process?

[ridicule] 16/2/2019 13:18

red7al your post 59740. Yes I think you have misinterpreted those Neill comments. In my view, there are two sets of processes: the processes of the partner company, Unilever, AECOM et al and, according to Neill these will not change materially (pardon the pun). Second, there are the internal processes within VRS and, when one creates enhanced polymers with Nanene ready mixed, there are a completely different set of process implications within VRS. Much easier to transport to the partner; many more of the transformational overall processes kept within VRS with the added value and greater protection of IPR that brings.I think this is what Neill was referring to in the reference you highlighted.

This point has been too little discussed on this thread amongst all the gloom and doom, so thank you for raising it. Polygren was a great value enhancer that perhaps has received too little recognition.

[meganxmas] 16/2/2019 13:08

Ever incorporated a new material from concept design to practical application with testing along the way? No thought not.