Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[superg1] 18/12/2018 07:37

Miton trust fund top 20 holdings as of the end of Oct.

The percentage is related to the value of the fund which is £87 million.

So of anyone has the below shares and Miton talks of material redemptions come Q1 then the larger holdings are going to get hit.

I imagine the VRS holding will be gone (if not already) well before then. About 840k last count.

Kape Technologies plc 4.1
2. Frontier IP Group plc 3.0
3. Zotefoams plc 3.0
4. Cerillion plc 3.0
5. Nanoco Group plc 2.9
6. Aquis Exchange plc 2.7
7. Corero Network Security plc 2.5
8. Kromek Group plc 2.5
9. Bilby plc 2.2
10. Conygar Investment Co plc
11. BATM Advanced Comms Ltd 2.0
12. Science in Sport plc
13. Mind Gym plc
14. Diversified Gas & Oil plc 1.7
15. Scientific Digital Imaging plc
16. CML Microsystems plc
17. Versarien plc 1.5
18. Van Elle Holdings plc 1.4
19. Brighton Pier Group plc 1.4
20. Eland Oil & Gas plc

[superg1] 18/12/2018 07:24

Why do you disagree Fest. I’ve been saying it for months and have the figures.

Gervais told some he was holding and I thought Miton would need to sell some in the trust fund for a few reasons including covering potential redemption requests to come.

That fund has dropped from over £100 mill value to the 80’s.

Of the main holdings only a few had the volume to sell into. VRS has gone up multiples for them and saw big selling from them as did WEY.

They have resisted on Zote but surely that one is next in line for a mass sell off by them.

Redemptions last year were 10% v the usual 1%.

[ellissj] 18/12/2018 07:19

UK Plastic bottle deposit scheme by 2023 ! 2020 in scotland :) wonder if opportunity for reususable bottles with +nanene in. Clean rather than recycle ? And 'polluter pay' in general will encourage firms to change their packaging strategy - scope for 2D solutions here imo. Best ellis

"Packaging producers to pay full recycling costs under waste scheme. Government strategy to make ‘polluter pay’, with penalties for difficult to recycle items"


"Retailers and producers of packaging will be forced to pay the full cost of collecting and recycling it under the government’s new waste strategy."

"Launched on Tuesday by the environment secretary, Michael Gove, the government’s waste strategy embraces leading EU policies on the circular economy just as the UK prepares to quit the bloc....."

".....As well as forcing producers to pay millions of pounds more towards the collection and recycling of their packaging waste, the strategy tackles plastic pollution and food waste.

It aims to:

• Introduce a tax on single use plastic with less than 30% recycled content.

• Consider banning plastic packaging where there are alternatives.

• Legislate to allow government to specify a core set of materials to be collected by all local authorities and waste operators.

• Commit to a deposit return scheme for bottles and cans.

• Ensure all households get food waste collections.

• Try to build a stronger UK recycling market.

But critics are angry at the time it is taking the government to implement measures such as the deposit return scheme for plastic bottles and cans.

“It is great to see further commitments to introduce a deposit return system for cans and bottles, which is tried, tested and proven to boost recycle rates to over 90%,” said Samantha Harding, litter programme manager at the Campaign to Protect Rural England.

“However, the rollout of such a system may not happen for another five years. With the Scottish government expected to introduce its deposit system by 2020, and the packaging producers – who would pay for the system – wanting it to be UK-wide, why does our government think it would take a further three years to get in line....?”

[festario] 18/12/2018 01:36

SuperG, I have to strongly disagree with you regarding the Milton remnants, on more than one level.... but I fear I'm wasting my time.

[mryl] 18/12/2018 00:10

Luckyo, funny you say that, a friend made the exact same remark to me a few hours ago 🤔
You wouldn't happen to be a 25 year-old French Engineer by any chance? 😅
More seriously, "believe" and "good" are not appropriate here. I think it is just a case of poor wording... the actual patent will provide more detailed information.

[luckyorange] 17/12/2018 23:07

I have a problem with the wording in the RNS?

"These compounds can be produced in industrial quantities and the patented process allows the physical and chemical properties of the nanomaterials to be fixed by controlling the synthesis parameters." OK that is straightforward.


"The Company believes that the nanomaterials obtained following this methodology provide good energy storage properties in a reproducible way."

Believes? Not scientific at all and surely it has been tested , either it does or doesn't ?

Just poor wording I would hope!

[lovat scout] 17/12/2018 22:34

Looks like the Grinch stole the Christmas market rally! Oh well, 2019 should be interesting for VRS shareholders even if the main markets are fighting macro headwinds.....

[superg1] 17/12/2018 22:20

As mentioned previously re the Miton trust fund they got hit by more than just Yu group so I suspected some covering would appear.

Coming into December they only had 840k shares left in that fund. It will be nice when they are gone if they are selling the lot.

[ashehzi] 17/12/2018 20:53

Don't think so diversification. I know you meant DOW NASDAQ n S&P500 are down big time, but most here are LTHs. Yes there will be some nervous sellers so good luck to grab the opportunity. They are pricing in possible rate hike by fed but then we have brexit fun.

[diversification] 17/12/2018 20:29

I smell opportunity...

[luckyorange] 17/12/2018 20:15

Scientists always quote 5 years 😉

[mikebrenner] 17/12/2018 20:09

I don't disagree with you lucky orange on timelines and need for speed ... Sure that if anyone can make things move faster then NR can! I'm just trying to have a dose of reality on job to be done with some very very big partners and battery tech firms before others say unrealistic things like they expect £1 billion in revenues in 2 yrs time!!

[hew] 17/12/2018 19:58

Re "graphene in the hiking boots", the 10 Sept 2018 Man Uni announcement below made the new company behind it pretty clear although does not give the primary source of the graphene.

From Ellis' post above of the 20 May 2016 condom related work, it seems that GO is used. Perhaps then a relatively low grade material and its origin really doesn't matter much. The new "Graphine Ltd" spinout shows considerable ambition for a two man outfit! So yes, a GEIC based competitor to VRS it seems, in the rubber type applications area, but I see no reason for concern - agree with Mike B's comments.

" Grafine Ltd is a new business created to develop innovative high-performance rubbers, elastomers and other such soft materials enhanced with graphene.........
"Grafine Ltd is looking to exploit the potential of this massive global market and has already excited interest from global manufacturers of elastomer and rubber products. Grafine is currently negotiating development contracts with such companies.........
....... The University’s wholly owned subsidiary, Graphene Enabled Systems Ltd, has supported the academic founders and, with assistance from UMI3 Ltd (the University's IP commercialisation company), created Grafine Ltd. Its CEO, Andrew Wilkinson, who represents the University on the Grafine Ltd board, is very optimistic........



By the way on 7 Aug 2018 I noted extracts from a tweet by Neill re Dr Aravind Vijayaraghavan:
" .......“Aravind left for Man Uni: ..... I'd love to talk to Aravind.... about joining new advisory board we are thinking about.... lot of time for him, part of the family at the beginning."

I wonder what if any contact was made - the GEIC group surely have some informal liasons anyway.

[luckyorange] 17/12/2018 19:54

Not forgetting that Cambridge Graphene have been in battery and supercapacitor development for some time, together with Gnano there must be some forward momentum?

Supercapacitors and batteries
Increased processing power means increased energy usage. Graphene’s applications in battery and capacitor technology will deliver huge advances across the low-power device market.

[luckyorange] 17/12/2018 19:50

The other important aspect is that scientists are more immersed in the science than actually seeing the importance of getting the product to market.

i.e. they may already have achieved a 30% improvement but believe with time they can reach 80%, however, that doesn't pay the bills. As in F1 a 5% improvement is seen as stunning but Formula e now have an improved battery already.

'In terms of the battery capacity, it’s almost doubled in capacity for a relatively minor increase in weight. The capacity has increased a lot for only about 50 kilos so that’s showing how much the battery’s advanced in only four years. And ultimately it’s why we only need one car. So historically you’d get 22 to 24 minutes racing in one car and now we have to do 45 minutes plus one lap – and we’ll be doing it faster.'

[luckyorange] 17/12/2018 19:22

Hi Mike, I appreciate what you are saying

"Think Roberto said that he thought it would be 5 years before gnanomat tech was the mainstream application in super capacitors which would be 2023 so feels about right esp when compared to time for Nanene scale up.

Obviously we hope things happen faster and NR & team with their huge drive and capabilities have the chance to do that, but we shouldn't underestimate the job to be done here"

But in these cases it is a race to the finish and that also shouldn't be underestimated which I am sure the VRS team are aware of, just an example below of how the push is on!


The graphene-infused supercapacitor technology used by AVEVAI in its IONA models is developed by Singapore-based e-SYNERGY, a provider of smart batteries and energy management systems. This system also extends the optimal productive life of the batteries, compared with existing products on the market.

IONA electric vehicles are powered by a Graphene Energy Management System (GEMS) that can be customized for use in any electric vehicle to enhance performance and range and maximize the productive life of the battery.

The patented GEMS technology, which AVEVAI and e-SYNERGY plan to market in 2019, uses graphene-infused supercapacitors with very low internal resistance. Controlled by a proprietary smart algorithm, GEMS allows charging and discharging cycles to run in nanoseconds and the entire vehicle electrical system to store and distribute energy more efficiently and with greater flexibility.

Designed by AVEVAI in Singapore, the IONA is built on a chassis developed in an R&D facility in Stuttgart, Germany, in cooperation with Daimler and Foton. The development process incorporates all performance and safety related elements, from brakes, bearings, drive and control systems, as well as insulation and NVH, to achieve the highest international standards for quality and meet stringent European safety regulations.







Intellectual Property
Our technology has been patented in Singapore and Germany. In addition we have made PCT patent filings as well as filed patent applications in China.

[ellissj] 17/12/2018 18:55

Good idea lag. Neill tweeted we are investigating cement, with the right partners :) atb ellis

[laginaneil] 17/12/2018 18:48

Hello Folks,
An article on cement reminded me of a cement works near York (uk) which used to belch
vast quantities of thick grey smoke and left a terrible smell 24 hrs a day.
Cement manufacture generates as much CO2 as the worlds 3rd largest country !

I wondered if Nanene could 'team up' with a 'green' cement I read about made by
micro-organisms a bit like corral - save the world as we make a bob or two maybe..

[ellissj] 17/12/2018 18:35

I agree, it's most likely. They have reduced holding in zotefoam too per tr1. And taken a hit from collapse in yu - now underwater. Redemption date pushed out from apr to jun 19. All makes logical sense to me. Obviously they are rebalancing. I imagine they will hold onto some vrs. Aimo. Best ellis

[anley] 17/12/2018 18:10

From Miton

‘Overall, this strategy has generated significant capital gains for our shareholders since launch. For example, the company's holdings in Wey Education (WEY) and Versarian (VRS) were trimmed at an earlier stage than the holding in Zotefoams (ZTF), which has been retained in full despite its major share price appreciation,’ the said.

Zotefoams is the trust’s third biggest holding at 2.9% of assets while Versarian ranks 17th at 1.4% and Wey at 40th on 0.9%.

I believe that they have been the recent sellers.

[jkok1] 17/12/2018 17:57

ISO Graphene Standard. As this has been the subject of some comment I thought I would check it again on the ISO Website. As I understand it the relevant ISO is ISO/TR 19733 Nanotechnologies “ Matrix of properties and measurement techniques for graphene and related two-dimensional (2D) materials. This is now “Under Publication” according to the website (see below). Regarding input to the draft, this had come from a number of countries, such as United Kingdom, USA, Japan and Korea. This particular project is led by Korea and the USA, but the United Kingdom is a strong participant in all the graphene standardization work being undertaken by the international committee on ISO/TC 229 Nanotechnologies.
What also comes out of analysis and discussion is that the ISO Standard is there to promote commercialisation and not to hamper it. However I do not believe publication will immediately solve the issues surrounding the quality of graphene as there will inevitably discussions about testing and statistics. For example can something that is 60% under 10 layers still be called graphene? All very complicated but at least we are moving in the right direction.

[woodpeckers] 17/12/2018 17:37

Miton....More fool Gervais...

"..their policy was to reduce and take profits in stocks whose share price had run well .."

"For example, the company's holdings in Wey Education (WEY) and Versarian (VRS) were trimmed at an earlier stage than the holding in Zotefoams (ZTF), which has been retained in full despite its major share price appreciation,’ the said."

Zotefoams is the trust’s third biggest holding at 2.9% of assets while Versarian ranks 17th at 1.4% and Wey at 40th on 0.9%.

[loglorry1] 17/12/2018 17:36

What great newsflow? All I see is a bunch of non-regulatory non-material RNSs and a big options exercise by a member of VRS staff, presumably to sell their shares.

Obviously we have NR giving it the usual extreme promotion but I think we all take him with a massive dose of salt bless him.

[anley] 17/12/2018 16:57

From £140 to £155 per pair of Hiking Boots from www.inov-8.com

A small business based in Cumbria........but Manchester did the research and look carefully on their website and you will see the liquid stuff.

VRS get to it in 2019 and all have a great Christmas and a Happy New Year.