Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[ellissj] 18/11/2018 10:07

Cheers jointer. Agreed, cpi was an important moment for company. In effect, vrs Winners of an independent testing 'auction'imo. Atb. Ellis

[smythe2] 18/11/2018 09:59

Yep! .... fool”s gold they certainly will get caught short!

[jointer13] 18/11/2018 09:49

yes elliss...good post

we are at the forefront of this amazing technology.

its all about the quality.

we won everything we went in for at the cpi, which was based on the importance of quality.

[ellissj] 18/11/2018 09:44

Exactly 'fake graphene' looks a huge problem; and that's why a prudent investor looks for credibility in an unregulated market. Therefore, to the layman, data sheets and product descriptions should be viewed with an appropriate due caution. Regarding VRS, they appear to be a bona fide company and producer of 2D materials for the following reasons;

1. Their 2D tech was spun out of UoM and UoC who remain as shareholders.
2. VRS were multiple tenders winners as materials suppliers to the CPI in 2017.
3. In the 2018 prelims the company advised they have confidence their products will meet the criteria of the proposed ISO graphene standards.
4. Professor Iain Gray CBE is non-executive director of the company.
5. Professor Andrea Ferrari is a technology advisor to cambridge graphene ltd.
6. VRS is "the launch client of The Graphene Council's 'Verified Graphene Producer' programme in the USA."
7. Dr Denis Koltsov was appointed to the vrs technology team. "He is Chair of ISO TC 229 Nanotechnology Standards Group at ISO (International Organization for Standardization)"
8. Dr Martin Kemp is also part of vrs technology team. "He is Chairman of the Nanomaterials Committee of the Institute of Materials, Minerals and Mining (IOM3).  Of particular note, Dr Kemp has written the new standard for graphene flakes (British Standard Institution BSI PAS 1201:2018 'Properties of Graphene Flakes - Guide') which was sponsored by InnovateUK."
9. In june 18, vrs were appointed as "the inaugural Industry Council member and Corporate Partner of The National Graphene Association ("NGA"), the main organisation and body in the US advocating and promoting the commercialisation of graphene. The NGA Industry Council will be a select number of prominent graphene companies leading NGA committees on policy, standards and business development."
10. In august 18 VRS joined a 'select' group of companies through "it's partnership with the Department for International Trade DIT, by becoming an official "Export Champion", in order to help promote the UK Government's "Exporting is GREAT" campaign."
11. As of 15th August 18, VRS have 2 senior civil servant secondees to help with their international expansion plans. "The appointment of Peter Jay follows that of Matt Walker announced on 22 May 2018, who also joined Versarien on secondment from the DIT as the Company's Head of International Strategy and Government Relations."
12. EDIT - on 19th nov 18; jinjan update mou rns endorsed vrs as a world leader.
"The MOU, signed by Li Hao, Chairman of JHFI, included the following statement: "JHFI specially organised experts to hold a demonstration meeting with regard to graphene project. Experts at the demonstration meeting consider that the graphene technology of Versarien has certain world leading position and can be introduced in China to strenghten technical co-operation between China and the UK".

Neill Ricketts, CEO of Versarien, commented: "We are very pleased to be making progress in establishing a Chinese graphene manufacturing base for Versarien in Jinan and I am very grateful for the significant support we are continuing to receive from both Chinese governmental and industrial parties.

"Before entering into this MOU JHFI have undertaken significant analysis of our graphene products and we are delighted to note that they consider them to be world leading."



As most posters know, i have discounted the NPL proposed characterisation of graphene service, because it is unclear whether investors will have sight of their data ie whether a 'graphene' supplier complies with the proposed iso standard and what their products are suitable for ie. Composites, coatings etc. Likewise, i have also discounted membership of Geic for the same reason. Thus until the iso graphene standard goes live, and/or the bsi npl service is live and visible to investors, and/or geic provides the status of its producer partners in relation to these standards, i shall rely upon other sources of information/credibility in the public domain, such as those listed above. Each to their own.

I am 100% VRS and very content with my investment choice. As ever, aimho. Dyor. Glalth. Best ellis.

[haz101] 18/11/2018 09:36

Tomduck can u post up please

[luckyorange] 18/11/2018 09:36

Can't disagree foolishben, just a short term correction , no dot com bubble or banks worldwide falling apart and just a factual video based on current and past market conditions.

If anyone hasn't listened/watched as foolishben stated it is worth an hour of your time, well researched and not trying to make a case either way but make your own mind up on the presentation of the facts.

(I think it was Ashehzi who first mentioned him on here)

[serratia] 18/11/2018 09:17

Hi spid,

There's nothing unusual about share based payments being classed as expenditure. A debt has to be paid and it can be in cash or shares there are reasons for either approach. If cash is in short supply a company can try to get the debt paid in shares. The receiving party takes the risk upside or downside, the shareholders get dilution of their holdings.
It is expenditure though as the recipient has to be paid. Agree they'll be less cash negative due to reduced mining expenses in the following year. They used $1.4m in the last quarter and say it'll drop to $0.9m in the next quarter. They hold $3.4m cash. Their main difficulty is the high salaries the directors take out at this early stage of their evolution.
I can see why they have to pay Kremford for the licence but why pay Traxys to sell the product. The usual deal is the sales/marketing group take a margin on sales. Paying them money before they've sold anything seems strange or is there something I've missed as I'm not that close to their business model?

[laginaneil] 18/11/2018 09:14

Morning Folks,
I see this is now a board for talking to/about the shortest...
Come on show them your metal!

Don't read !
Don't talk about them !
Filter filter filter !

[jointer13] 18/11/2018 09:08

tomduck...can you post it.

[jointer13] 18/11/2018 09:07

"It is alarming to uncover that producers are labelling black powders as graphene and selling them for top dollar, while in reality, they contain mostly cheap graphite

[tomduck] 18/11/2018 09:04

Ian Cowie update on his VRS holding in the Sunday Times today, he bought at £1.77, so is holding on for a recovery...

[loglorry1] 18/11/2018 08:54

Grabster and Serratia

You are lying again or you can't count. You said "XG Sciences ....By the look of their last fundraising they seem to value themselves at around £50m."

At the last fund raise they were valued at $35m or £27m.

Yes they've spent money on R&D growing their business and production capacity. They may well still fail but they are selling tonnes of high quality Graphene to customers like Ford. Not 1kg of low/medium quality GnP like VRS.


Page 11 of target='window'>https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=

[fuji99] 18/11/2018 08:49

Smythe2 - Shorters have to make a living by any means, From lies to deception and so on as the main aim is to lower the share price to make a profit. It was always like this. But in the long run fluctuations, which are the series of day-trading fights between bulls and bears will appear as blips on an ascending chart.

[smythe2] 18/11/2018 08:40

Jointer......and crooked shorters

[jointer13] 18/11/2018 08:33

beware fake graphene.

[spid81] 18/11/2018 08:30

Hi Grabster and Serratia,

I need to add a few details to your comment regarding First Graphene

First Graphene did have a loss of $4 mil GBP or $7 mil AUD, if you read the Annual report you will soon understand why.

FGR spent the following

Mining Expenses of $1.3 Mil
– Mining has now been put on Care and Maintenance due to them having enough graphite feed to supply the existing 100tpa factory for the next 3-5 years.

Research and Development $3.28 Mil

– Includes, BEST Battery, FireSTOP, Polyurethane / Graphene composite, VFD, Turbo Thin Film device, ect

For some strange reason Share based payment are classed as expenditure, the $1.2 Mil in share based payments were paid to:

Traxys – who are FGR sales and marketing company that is providing FGR with access to companies like Tesla, Panasonic and Samsung,
Kremford – Who own the world wide license for the BEST Battery Technology, where FGR have the rights to earn between 70-100%
And Director and Consultant payments.

How much has VRS spend on R&D ? wasn't this only $340k GBP or $600k AUD

you also failed to mention VRS loss for the 2018 financial year, this was $1.5 Mil GBP - $2.6 mil AUD

If you take for FGR's R&D and the costs associated with mining and share based payments for securing IP, VRS and FGR both suffered very similar losses for 2018.







___________________________________
And as serratia pointed out yesterday (post 48686) - looking at the peer group that some detractors are so impressed by:




Elcora M.Cap £5.9m but the auditor says they aren't a going concern so nothing to look at there.

XG Sciences built a large plant and can't make the sales to fill it. Now in a difficult financial position. By the look of their last fundraising they seem to value themselves at around £50m. Large losses.

Nanoxplore M.Cap £66.5m Sales £4.6m, wages £3.7m loss £2.6m

Talga M.Cap £56m, no sales ,loss £5.6m These guys make VRS look very under valued.

First Graphene M.Cap £37m no sales £4m loss. Directors pay themselves so much the share holders vote heavily against their pay. Look to be working more in their own interests than the share holders. VRS only worth 5* this company that has no sales.


VRS looks undervalued against this peer group.

[grabster] 18/11/2018 08:09

Detractors are repeatedly failing to identify any competitor companies that are not seriously flawed.