Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[matheus7777] 27/10/2018 19:05

Why does anybody engage with the shorters? They're only here for one reason. All it'll do is distract the newbies researching VRS. Just ignore them

[loglorry1] 27/10/2018 19:01

Hoverflyman

If you have multilayer graphene with a surface area of 50-80m2/gm I would presume that figure relates to the outer surface of the particles, not the summated value for each and every component layer. But WTFDIK until I’ve attended that presentation?

I assume it is related to surface area which is available for contact with polymers. As I'm sure you have noticed there are products out there with a much higher surface area per gram in fact most of them.

SuperG seems happy to use the surface area stated to imply a number of layers except when applying the same rule to Nanene because if you do you get 58 layers!

[loglorry1] 27/10/2018 18:58

>LOGLORRY.........where do you get your fact that VRS graphene revenue is zero?

My mistake should have said negligible. The company has never to my knowledge reported any graphene sales numbers.

[anley] 27/10/2018 18:56

LOGLORRY.........where do you get your fact that VRS graphene revenue is zero?

Hard facts please.........

[festario] 27/10/2018 18:45

Timothy, that statement is a blatant lie!The CEO of versarien has gone on record as saying that the company DOES invoice sales of Nanene on a very regular basis. I think his quote was 'all the time'It's just that we have not had any material single orders announced.

[ellissj] 27/10/2018 18:43

Indeed hew, a fine quote. i read this week dyson has haboured a desire to produce ev's for years. Obviously, with the demise of the ice, new entrants have a chance to disrupt and make their mark. They say with only £2b to stick in, dyson will struggle. But using logic, we know his products are cutting edge and disruptive. Thus you'd think he'll make a product EV offering that leapfrogs his rivals in terms of tech and design. It's his best chance surely ? Maybe his only. Aimo. Best ellis

[loglorry1] 27/10/2018 18:31

Talga and FGR graphene revenues are almost zero. However VRS graphene revenue IS zero*.

I don't think you can argue that VRS should attract a £150m premium over their peer group when they are also selling no graphene.

I'm not keen on Talga (£56m market cap) either but they claim a lot more collaborations than VRS and are still selling barely any graphene.

Directa Plus DCTA recently reported some small sales (£21m market cap)

XGS is booking graphene revenues. See page 5 onward of this document for sales and projections

We are tracking the commercial and development status of more than 100 different customer applications using our materials with some
customers pursuing multiple applications.

Note XGS post raise was valued at $35m = ~£27m

EDIT: To my knowledge the $ value of any Graphene sales reported by the group to date is zero.

[hew] 27/10/2018 18:20

Thanks ellis. Actually I left out the best bit of the FT article, the last sentence, a visionary quote from James D: "Dyson was never about vacuum cleaners". Love that!

I'm confident that Neill shares the outlook!

[ellissj] 27/10/2018 18:02

Very timely article hew. As a rule of thumb, I imagine the more the disruptive the tech, the more firms wish to keep research under wraps? Ie to gain a competitive lead over rivals in one swoop ! Anyway, we'll know in the fullness of time. Aimo. Best ellis

[hew] 27/10/2018 17:48

Re working under an NDA (ellis, above), the weekend FT has a feature article on Dyson's EV enterprise. It covers their stringent security approach and mentions that the NDA for one supplier took a year to negotiate.

Apart from that it's mostly known stuff, including them apparently abandoning the internal battery development programme and now looking at or working with some other(s). Comments are reported by some that car manufacture - as opposed to design - is a tough business, far tougher than, e.g. vacuum cleaners. As Musk found. However the plan is for three models, kicking off in three years.

Who knows whether/what any VRS involvement and, if any, it was with the original or current battery scheme, but I have a clear memory of Neill's response in a VOX podcast 6 months or more ago when he was asked straight out about any involvement with Dyson. There was what seemed to me a pregnant silence, and then a rather abrupt: "I can't comment on that", or similar. Entirely my interpretation, and I know nothing of the matter. (If I did I would not have written this - of course not.) EDIT 6 Feb '18 podcast.

We do have battery expertise and involvements now, so it's reasonable to wonder.

[axotyl] 27/10/2018 17:40

"...A$8317 against the previous year of 1452.." - any zeros to tag on, Anley?

[hoverflyman] 27/10/2018 17:38

Anley! You startled me !! :)

[anley] 27/10/2018 16:59

More on Talga next week...............

[anley] 27/10/2018 16:57

HOVERFLYMAN........suggests quite correctly.......

"I suggest NR should consider, for the next Investors’ Day, a presentation on how we should be interpreting the important parameters when assessing graphene datasheets, and to explain methods of measurement and their results. Or perhaps something of that kind could be included on the website."

Dr S Hodge Head of VRS Research should help put this together then everyone could see or at least try and understand all the so called differences...........we shall see.

My OZ office has just told me that Talga graphene sales for their Y/E 2018 were A$8317 against the previous year of 1452 and as someone has mentioned thay have over 100 customers...........

[ellissj] 27/10/2018 16:54

I didn't pick that up club, but you could be right if so! We know dr deakin had a good visit to s.korea last year on the trade mission there. Hoping our new trade rep out there is as prolific as bruno is in china ! No pressure lol. Aimo. Best ellis.

[club sandwich] 27/10/2018 16:46

elliss - didn't NR make some cryptic comment about Korea a while ago, something along the lines that Axia was the collab they've notified the market about, or words to that effect, implying that there were others they hadn't told us about?

[luckyorange] 27/10/2018 16:46

Can't argue with that serratia, I think it is currently a waste of purportedly the best graphite in the world to throw it into concrete for little profit, shouldn't be allowed.

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[loglorry1] 27/10/2018 15:37

He promotes anything he's paid to. It's a financial marketing company. Anyone who buys anything based on watching a Vox Podcast probably deserves to lose the lot.

Decent point about zero sum but remember the vast majority of these AIM story stocks eventually go bust or just bump along at 15m market cap continuously rising cash.



-----------

To be fair Justin also promotes PHE, but even he struggled to sound optimistic on that one.

[serratia] 27/10/2018 15:15

Further thoughts on concrete -

Before reading up on the subject I'd assumed that any benefits in the use of Graphene in concrete would be independent of layer number. This is not the case. Tests were run with 6 layer , 10 layer functionalized and 60 layer materials. The compressive strength fell with the 60 layer material, functionalised material was no better than untreated concrete and 6 layer showed the big gains.
In concrete the failure of multi layer was not put down to sliding of the sheets which you see during flexing of plastics. The answer was down to interference with the crystallization as concrete sets. It seems that 6 layer material aids the reaction.
Apart from doubling the strength concrete manufacture accounts for 7% of the worlds CO2 emissions. If half the concrete could be used that would make a big change.
I did a rough costing to see what price Graphene would need to hit to be used in concrete. The web throws up ready mix at around £100/m3. The optimum addition rate was 0.7 g/l but a lot of the benefit was seen at 0.4 g/l. This is way below the addition rate for plastics. Most of the concrete mix is sand and gravel so Graphene only has to react with the hydration crystallisation element - cement which is about 10% of the concrete.
If you reduce the concrete levels needed by 50% you save £50/m3 which works through as 12.5p/gm for Graphene. Not a price to chase today but as production levels rise and costs fall this should be achievable in the future.

[club sandwich] 27/10/2018 14:42

On the subject of orders. If it is true that an order is only notifiable (ie compulsory) if it is equal to or greater than 10% of the previous year's turnover, then that would equate to £900k (on last year's turnover of £9m). - or 9Kgs at the price that McLaren paid a few years ago (prices may or may not have come down since then, I have no idea). So it is entirely possible - though of course this is purely speculation - that they are receiving really quite valuable orders (ie sub-£900k) but are choosing not to notify the markets (possibly so as not to tip off the competition). After all, NR has said several times words to the effect that they get orders almost every day - hard to believe those are *all* for just a few 10s or 100s of Gs for testing...

[foolishben] 27/10/2018 14:39

loglorry1 27 Oct '18 - 14:16 - 43940 of 43943 (Filtered)......Makes for a much more peaceful weekend. Those who haven't tried it yet really should.

[johnveals] 27/10/2018 14:33

ellissj - absolutely, the points do hold water.

[ellissj] 27/10/2018 14:29

That might be the case JV :) but to my mind his points hold water. VRS have gone about building credibility in a methodical way, and so it's no coinicidence to me their potential has grown exponentially. Scaling up has continued at regular intervals since this blog was written, and now the 3T annual capacity machinery expected next month. It's all about building confidence and vrs has done that in spades. Hence chinese interest. And now a meeting with the us govt ! :) well done neill and co. Grateful holder here. Aimo. Dyor. Best ellis