Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[superg1] 06/10/2018 08:26

Lucky

Re the Hayd seller circs. It’s a complete farce that the broker sounds off about the selling of what was about less than £20k worth of shares.

I had the same sound off on one share many moons back. They wouldn’t take them in bulk so I did 4 trades to get the price. The share price didn’t move.

I bet if an MM had 55k on their books and he wanted to buy 55k it would have gone through no problem no complaints and no share price rise. Having just 1500 on offer would in that regard be irrelevant.

Hayd imo is in trouble, clearly they bought buinesses that are bleeding cash at a rapid rate. I haven’t looked at the detail but of that is the cause of the £500k per month cash burn then it was a stupid error.

On the orderly market bit. Why would under £20k make it disorderly?

So are the MMs dealing with underlying large orders which to keep an ‘orderly market’ they don’t report.

I suspect the anger comes from disrupting their ability to look after mates exiting.

Worse still if they have wind of a fund raise they point to that small sell as the excuse for a drop plus discount on top.

Some went in at £1.20 last time around. They will be angry. Well they should listen to some that do research and have a better understanding of the sector.

As always don’t take the Haydale circs at face value and entirely their fault.

I’m beginning to learn about the ‘layers’ of deceit by nomads.

[ellissj] 06/10/2018 08:17

Tweet from neill last night;

"Neill Ricketts

@neillricketts

I've #justsponsored Simon Ballinger, who's fundraising for Action for Children on

@JustGiving

. Donate now"

[ellissj] 06/10/2018 08:14

And of course, if you look at vrs offering, +nanene, other cpi tender winning graphene products, graphinks and other 2D inks, hexotene, 3D printing - and now with gnano, leading edge 2D next gen battery tech. ! Unrivalled in terms of quality and bredth. No wonder they are coming to us ! Aimo. Dyor. Best ellis

[ellissj] 06/10/2018 07:47

Indeed lucky, a sad loss there. A reminder how equity investments can go wrong v quickly. Size is no guide either, ftse100 carillion demise and others demonstrate it's about good stewardship by BOD that's crucial to success. That's why 'getting the right deal/s' is vital and worth holding out for. Right behind neill and co on this. Patience reqd. Aimo. Glalth Best ellis

[ellissj] 06/10/2018 07:40

Re this geic info page. Clearly BAE have a future graphene demand ! I wonder how many more multinationals partnered with geic have similar long term graphene ambitions? To my mind, many have yet to declare their hand in public. But Geic due to open December. Hopefully vrs is sitting pretty here. I hope UK will have a certification service up and running by then to capitalise upon our world lead, a fudged 'dogs breakfast' will not do ! By then vrs new machinery in play. The next 12 mos looks v interesting ! Aimo. Dyor. Best ellis.

"I was very impressed by the scale and vision of what Manchester is trying to achieve. The key for companies like BAE Systems, who will be long-term users of graphene, is the capability to move quickly, and the GEIC will allow the University to do that.

Steve Harris / Head Of University Collaboration, BAE Systems"

[lovat scout] 06/10/2018 07:30

Grabster - as far as I can see the two management teams are pursuing diametrically opposed growth (contraction in HAYD’s case) strategies so hopefully no such eventuality.

I’ve bored you all before with my views on the differences between VRS and HAYD so I won’t repeat myself except to say one company has a 21st century global growth model and the other seems to be stuck with a 19th century version.

[grabster] 06/10/2018 06:57

I just hope NR doesn't take pity on Haydale and bail them out. That would be a serious error imo. Snapping up any tiny part of that company that is of use (if any), in the event that it is dismantled, might be OK, but a rescue no thanks.

[lovat scout] 05/10/2018 23:09

Without a major change in management strategy I’m not sure HAYD is investable. The revenue to cost ratio is clearly unsustainable - AIMHO of course

[redchef] 05/10/2018 21:22

It may look a dramatic drop for Haydale but volume was only 250k which at 30p is just GBP 75000 or so

[luckyorange] 05/10/2018 21:11

Owenga, got to be the fundraising situation as described by superg, many, many times.

Knocking it down and then discount to share price , horrible if you are in there.

[ashehzi] 05/10/2018 21:03

Hard to guess todays price action. Selling buying or just big guys changing hands from II to cornerstone investor. Stock is being moved around 170-180p range. But bottom line is share price ia study with avg vol of near the million.

[owenga] 05/10/2018 20:57

Pain for haydale today. 15% down, now below 30p.

[ashehzi] 05/10/2018 20:09

04 weeks in this price range but in a month 18.67% up.

#perspective

Markets are down this week and we are 2.47% down in a week. Not that bad.

Let us hope next week is better.

[hew] 05/10/2018 19:34

Fest, my thoughts are only re possibilities for the initial China deal announced, not large revenues from there or any other deals - lots of potential!

[festario] 05/10/2018 19:18

If I'd known back in January that the Jinan deal would not have progressed further by now, I'd have sold my shares down in VRS.But, that would have been a mistake, and I would have missed out on 80p per share or so.The share price has been propelled by strong demand at each 30p price increment, from 90p.Any kind of large revenue producing agreement with China or any collaboration partner is most certainly not priced in.

[club sandwich] 05/10/2018 18:54

Hew - agree with all of that. I expect a rise on initial China news (I'm not so sure it is priced in, myself), then a sustained rise over time as further deals are signed, production ramps up and the penny drops with the wider markets.It couldn't be a 'big bang' anyway, because as you say VRS doesn't have the machines - yet - to service a demand of even tens of Ts, let alone the hundreds or thousands I hope China will turn into. A maiden China deal by Xmas, with some comment or indications about the number of parties they're talking to and the very strong likelihood of more deals to follow will be a more than adequate present from Santa Ricketts for this particular punter...

[festario] 05/10/2018 18:40

Piles of late reported trades, as per usual.

[haz101] 05/10/2018 18:28

Very sensible post Hew

[haz101] 05/10/2018 18:25

I would agree with u lovat

[hew] 05/10/2018 18:24

Posted ok now.

[hew] 05/10/2018 18:23

China and deal(s). On the assumption a RNS relating those will emerge soon, perhaps very, I will be delighted if it’s a humdinger that lifts the share price substantially right away. But though I do expect it will be highly significant in establishing VRS as a beacon of UK high tech on the world stage and, after the recent publicity about China leading the global graphene race, highlighting us (Who?? Never heard of them.....) as the true driver and enabler, I’m not necessarily expecting an immediate major rise in the share price

Not that it matters much.

Apart from thinking that some China deal is in the price already (as said previously), I do expect whatever announcement is made to be worthy of a substantial “dog and pony show” by the DIT and other parts of Govt.

But given the complexities/(difficulties?)of agreeing “the deal”, with a good number of parties, two separate ones being - despite close collaboration - VRS and the UK Govt, with not necessarily identical agendas and priorities, to say nothing of the Chinese ones - perhaps few, perhaps many - with the commercial ownerships and structure(s), the enabling infrastructures in/by China, technical matters, production arrangements (unable initially to meet demand), IP protection (practical and political), and whatever else I’ve overlooked, I will not be surprised if the initial deal is quite limited in implementation and financial scale, however grand and glorious the future prospects are. The word is unlikely to be used but, in essence, a pilot.

We now know that 30+ parties are interested in VRS’s graphene - different versions perhaps. We don’t know how this number is made up, of provinces and other organisations, though presumably all controlled and scheduled by the Chinese regional and central authorities. But in whatever case, I’m expecting a sequence of further stages and deals, perhaps with different or changing commercial arrangements. The financial return to VRS would thus be over time, perhaps rising quickly as production units are built in parallel, but unlikely all to be immediate on day one.

If the initial financial return is relatively small, that may give rise to some negativity. By the usual few, but they will have numbers and ratios to spout, so it’s as well to be prepared.

I do hope no one thinks I’m being other than wholly positive about the situation. I am very heavily invested (for me) and have sold nowt, but I am managing my short term expectations. The worth of VRS will be the same, rooted in the quality of the company in all the respects that I have observed and in its medium and long term prospects - with the potential for some nearer term ones sprinkled in too.

I’m excited and expect to be pleased by whatever deal is announced - but short term financials don’t matter.

All just IMO.

[lovat scout] 05/10/2018 18:19

I’m not expecting bullish comment on VRS and if he does dwell on the company, the hack will look at the revenue and share price history and see it as too (career) risky to say buy.

I don’t expect a hatchet job either. I think NR will have come across very well so it will be classified as *interesting* and * one to watch*.

[tomduck] 05/10/2018 18:15

My take on the upcoming Cowie article in the ST business section is that if he is explaining why it’s the one that got away he is unlikey to be suggesting it is a buy now. However as elissj says it hasn’t held back VRS so far.