Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[woodpeckers] 30/9/2018 10:34

I was thinking about all the comments re 'we need a large order soon'.
What do we actually mean by that? We don't actually NEED it right now...we have a good income which is seeing us tick over just about and we have plenty of cash currently in the bank... so what we're saying is (I think) that we need a large order to give us peace of mind, to prove to us that the technology works and that there will be market uptake of it.

I don't have a problem with 'prove to us that the technology works' bit. I can't see all these top scientists getting so excited if they hadn't well and truly proved it to themselves that it really does have these amazing capabilities...I also don't think the government would have pumped so much money in to promoting it's research if they hadn't seen proof...
However, the AGM was actually very reassuring for me on one point. What was good to hear was that the large collaborations talk money with us before they start all the trials...this tells me that they really will move forward with it when they see the proof of what it can do, that it is financially viable.

For me the collabs fall into 3 categories.
I don't think there is any doubt that the completely new type of product that is created like smart clothing etc will take off. We all love new 'big boys toys' and it never ceases to amaze me the percentage of our incomes we are prepared to spend on these things.
The second group is those products that will see improvements in the capabilities from incorporating Nanene. Improvements which can be proven...x% stronger, lighter, more durable etc. As long as these are made financially attractive then surely the market will jump at these too.
Strangely enough, the type of market uptake which I see as being the most risky is the one we have first to market... earphones. I'm not sure that I could tell the difference between one set of earphones and another ( though I will be buying some). Would I pay more for those with Nanene if I weren't a music buff (or invested in the company)???

So back to the 'we NEED an order soon', I think it would be great and I'm sure it will send the share price rocketing when it does arrive but I personally don't need the reassurance of it. I think we are fortunate enough to have got in on the ground floor. The elevator will no doubt be going up shortly...

Edit..just seen your post super, we're on the same wavelength this morning...

[superg1] 30/9/2018 10:23

AGM

A good question asked by someone and it was music to my ears.

I forget how many times I have said on here that when VRS go into a collaboration the feasibility costs are part of the NDA process before they get to the collaboration stage.

As many have seem GNPs sold for high prices they assume it's far too expensive to fit many industries.

I knew that answer as I'd asked it myself way back before the collaboration roll out began.

I think it was David Kerr that said it at the AGM. Why waste time and effort on a collaboration when you know from the outset the costs involved are going to kill any deal. It's just a waste of time.

I also know and you have heard it yourself VRS have rejected some interest on basis.

So you can be sure that every collaboration VRS are is viable on costs for the end users. Part of the reason is loadings. In some cases fractions of a percent on weight loadings can make the difference the end user is looking for.

The key is that .1% or .01% could be for a sector where the product is used in the 1000s of tonnes.

BTW world use of plastic is 300 million tonnes. Just 1% of that and .1% loadings would mean 3000 tonnes needed, 1% loadings 30,000 tonnes and so on. 10% use and .1% 30k tonnes, 1% use 300k tonnes.

Now you can more or less double up there on rubber use.

Then add in certain sectors could start to replace metals and it starts to snowball. As we know there is huge desire across many sectors to have advanced composites to replace metal to reduce weight.

Think steel and 1.7 billon tonnes were produced in 2017.

You don't have to have graphene in the entire product with composites just the points where you need the strength to make it viable.

That's structural think of all the adhesives, sealants and so on.
,
I tried to look up DOW products to get an idea and gave up as the range of products and uses is huge.

[zagrosfold] 30/9/2018 10:08

Great. I personally think that graphene will have as big an impact on the world as the internet and we all know what happened to the companies on the stock market that were first movers in the internet in 1999. The comforting thought is that most of those companies didn't have the product to back up their ridiculous share prices, VRS have. Bring on the ridiculous share price lol

[superg1] 30/9/2018 09:57

Interestingly some solid folk I mentioned graphene to a few years ago had never heard of it.

More recently they report being told that graphene is the thing to invest in for the future from some unusual (not city) routes.

[spike_1] 30/9/2018 09:33

Re; 'zinc air' battery technology mentioned by reelcooltrader.

If you watch the vid' it's reasonably clear that this is not designed for use in appliances / vehicles (incidentally - they never get mentioned), it requires sunlight and air, and appears to be as an alternative / additional power source for homes, and I'm guessing possibly energy storage.

Best wishes - Spike

[zagrosfold] 30/9/2018 09:25

Agreed. Sod the far east. If there is to be a new industrial revolution with graphene at it's heart then this govt should do all it can to make the UK it's home. Zap and Go, Dyson etc should become the new Panasonics and Samsungs of this brave new world! (starts singing Jersusalem etc)

[dafad] 30/9/2018 09:24

Thanks-could only see the headline

[serratia] 30/9/2018 09:21

John ,
You're correct if they're likely to get that big a pot. My kids have had a couple of money purchase schemes, the best was equivalent to a one hundredth final salary scheme the worst one two hundred and fiftieth. Neither would get them near the LTA.
They're in the early part of their careers so who knows where they'll end up job wise. If later in life they're getting near the LTA they can cash in the SIPP part when they're 55.

[shavian] 30/9/2018 09:17

DAFAD: the ST article says that Panasonic has had no joy yet in trying to squeeze govt support our of Theresa for a Japanese EV battery factory in the U.K. Hopefully she’s got better projects to spend the money on, like the Faraday challenge, WMG, and lending some of her top guys to VRS!

Edit: you beat me to it Woody :0)

[woodpeckers] 30/9/2018 09:13

Thanks for that DAFAD.

Maybe TM is saving that 'significant financial backing' for VRS...

"A Chinese delegation, including executives from BYD, is understood to have met Theresa May at a low- emissions car summit in Birmingham this month. However, industry sources said BYD and Panasonic had so far had no success with their efforts to secure significant financial backing from the government."

Could we be the 'specialist manufacturer' mentioned? It's not out of the question, we do make parts for Jaguar and they work with WMG.

Jaguar Land Rover has ambitions to build its own battery plant, and is likely to do so with a specialist manufacturer.

[dafad] 30/9/2018 09:00

Anyone seen the Sunday Times-i'm sure Vrs would love to be involved

[serratia] 30/9/2018 08:45

From the BBC -

Three in five UK adults say they believe some form of miracle is possible, a survey commissioned by the BBC has suggested.

Nearly half of those questioned on behalf of BBC Local Radio admitted to praying for a miracle at some time.

I guess quite a few of them are shareholders in our competitors.

[johnveals] 30/9/2018 08:43

Use ISA allowance before SIPP to minimise the Lifetime Allowance problem.

[ellissj] 30/9/2018 08:07

Indeed, one hundred and eighty times ! ;) best ellis

[club sandwich] 30/9/2018 08:04

Did you tell him about VRS? ;-)

[festario] 30/9/2018 01:23

It's very rare that you get to meet one of your idols in life, and even rarer to find that they are actually as great as you imagined they'd be.But tonight I was able to spend time talking about Darts with the THREE time WORLD champion... John Lowe! He hasn't changed a bit!Legend doesn't even come close.

[serratia] 29/9/2018 23:45

Run,

If you're going to eventually put it into a SIPP an ISA would avoid dividend tax which I assume is along way off and CGT if the sum is large. So yes an ISA would avoid the CGT issue.
If you're deciding how to give away the cash then an ISA could be used for say a house purchase which is a different route from pension saving.

[shavian] 29/9/2018 23:20

Lovat, thanks for that. No worries, been out all day.

[runthejoules] 29/9/2018 21:54

Serratia, wouldn't it be better to put it in a kid's ISA first? Or if older, a lifetime ISA?

[ashehzi] 29/9/2018 21:17

Vrs twitter team is calm, perfect for a near future storm.

[brooky] 29/9/2018 20:22

Just while the B.B. is relatively quite I’d just like to say how nice it was to meet up with fellow investors earlier this week at the agm, it was great chatting with superg, Richard, Andymac the night before in the Set, also thanks to Spike for recommending The Beaumont Hotel and Campbed for organising the buffet.
After the AGM had finished I asked Neill if he was still planning to do the Investor day up here in Manchester which he said he was and that it will probably be some time in December, so hopefully I’ll meet up with you all again then if you can make it...So thanks again to everyone for a great AGM trip.