Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[thetrophyman] 30/8/2018 20:11

So I keep wanting in but then I keep thinking, I've missed the boat but then I keep thinking, there's really no limit here, then I keep thinking there must be, and then I notice the share price has gone up another 10%...

[axotyl] 30/8/2018 19:55

Super, couldn't golf balls be Bluetoothed to bleep when interrogated?

Miniature solar panel (using graphene: for power? Printed circuit using Nanene?

How do you apply to Dragons' Den?

[laginaneil] 30/8/2018 19:52

Hello Fest,
I have been checking a bit on Interactive Investor:


Ref Number 141282

I sent them a secure message:
Dear Sir,
Are my shares held in an individual nominee account OR are they lumped together with lots of other clients’ shares, and held under a single nominee name?

It seems a combined nominee account can cause delays for administrators of a failed
company.

I will let you know what they say.

These were interesting write ups.

[affc21] 30/8/2018 19:52

Superg1,Bakewell (Derbyshire) any free parking spots (not many free parking spots about) and you will see expensive Beamers and Mercs parked up.

[1teepee] 30/8/2018 19:33

Spreadex won't let me put in a stop loss for Vrs, something to do with it not being on the electronic order book. I have to keep an eye as much as I can

[superg1] 30/8/2018 19:30

The obvious answer is steer clear of the small players and go with the big names.

BTW golf yesterday

I told the golf pro some time back graphene would appear in golf kit. HE said "Graph what"

So in the shop yesterday I spotted the graphene Callaway balls. The other pro was there. I said "aha graphene I see you have the graphene enhanced golf balls now"

Same answer "graph what"

"GRA FEEEN' it's in those balls"

"What balls"

"These here"

"Oh I never noticed"

Neither had anyone else or the staff, no one had a clue what graphene is, they had never heard of it. I didn't bother trying to explain, I only had an hour.

[spike_1] 30/8/2018 19:25

Having said sb companies don't cover your actual bet with real shares, I lie - slightly.

From time to time, when I place a sb (long term - don't day-trade) I have noticed that as I press the buy button, the equivalent amount of real shares appear on my stock screen (I'm not talking about the sb screen) e.g. the screens we all use with ADVFN.

I queried this with a mate who writes these sb programs for well known companies, and he said that is actually interesting because they believe that you (unlike most of their punters) represent a real risk. Meaning the amount I get back from them is likely to considerably exceed the amount I gave them (smug face).

I would add - this has only happened of late with VRS ;0)

And my VRS bets are covered with cash already on my account to cover the maximum amount I am able to lose regardless of stops being triggered.

I add this only to say - sb is not a good idea unless you really know what you are doing (I've learned my lesson the hard way - but that is for another day, probably in a bar).

Best - Spike

[superg1] 30/8/2018 19:22

Beaufort.

There were a small set up and it turned out to be a farce.

Of the 15,000 customers only 10 are said to be going to lose out on full returns. My guess is they had cash above the protection limit.

In fact one guy mentioned it yesterday at golf, he got caught there. He told me about calls from the share centre who would sort it all for a 5% fee. Told them to sod off as he would be getting it all back.

Just as well he did as apparently that lot is a fraud too trying to cash in on investor emotion for the existing fraud.... ??? scumbags.

BTW Although some of the crew invest and one is an ex Barclays Bank manager I never mention VRS to them. If they happen to mention it from their introduction then I will engage.

[axotyl] 30/8/2018 19:22

Actually it wasn't spread bets, Spike.

I'll talk to the FSCS tomorrow, Super - just to get it clear.

[spike_1] 30/8/2018 19:10

axtyl, yes you are correct as I recall except, I have a feeling we were talking about spreadbets - why - because a sb company accepts degrees of risk, and - I'm guessing - that risk can really only be accepted on the basis of the bet accepted. I presume they have their own levels of re-insurance risk provision, in the same way as banks do.

Sb companies hedge their portfolios with CFD's, i.e. since you only give them a % of the value of the share, they are not going to be able to buy the actual shares to protect your bet, but they can buy CFD's which are essentially - as I understand it - just another form of spread bet (I used to have over a third of a million in CFD's but that is another story).

So - in short (sorry) I think the original amount not the accumulated profit / loss is protected on spreadbets.

Best - Spike

[1teepee] 30/8/2018 19:09

Samsung have also now created the cfqd , so nanoco haven't got much. They say they got 600 patents or something like that

[1retirement] 30/8/2018 19:08

Trouble is, you have been caught short! Now, are you going to turn up at the AGM and give us all a little contemporary and interpretive dance?!

[superg1] 30/8/2018 19:03

ax

I think you are talking about cash held there. EG if for example someone had sold shares and was sat on £250k waiting to invest and the trouble hit then only £85k would be protected. If the money was in shares it's fine.

On the limits if there was claim for bad advice that was won although your loss may be more than £85k, £85k is the limit.

[alchemy] 30/8/2018 18:59

I was talking about obtaining executable bids and offers not safety of funds. Safety of funds not my forte. I'd thin iii is solid A friend of mine has been hit by the Beaufort Securities event but as I understand that is very very rare.

[diversification] 30/8/2018 18:57

Superg1 - spot on

[laginaneil] 30/8/2018 18:56

Fest - I found this usefull:



The key thing seem to be to ask does Interactive investor -

"..lump your shares together with lots of other clients’ shares, and hold them under a single nominee name."

[superg1] 30/8/2018 18:54

Help from the loveMONEY Expert Panel

Sarah Coles (pictured), personal finance analyst at Hargreaves Lansdown and member of the loveMONEY Expert Panel, gives this investor some reassurance.

The good news is that you have much greater protection than you think. Shares in a nominee service are held entirely separately from the broker, in a trust company. This separate company cannot run up liabilities of its own and won’t be affected in the unlikely event that the broker goes bust.

If you have sold all your shares and are holding cash in a nominee account at the point a broker goes bust, you are also protected. This is because the money is held on trust by third-party institutions (usually banks) and separated from the company’s own funds.

If one of those banks was to go bust, then the first £85,000 you have with that particular bank (including any money held in your own accounts) will be covered by the FSCS. However, cash held in your share dealing accounts may be spread across more than one institution. Hargreaves Lansdown, for example, spreads cash across five clearing banks.

If you hold a fund and the fund manager goes bust, then the underlying assets are protected. The stocks owned by that fund are held separately by a trustee or a depositary, so if the fund manager goes under, the investments in the fund remain.

[superg1] 30/8/2018 18:50

To give you an idea. I just added up some known and what I think are known companies engaging with VRS in news.

5 of the big names have $300 bill revenue between them and around 750,000 employees.

Nanoco is good one to choose.

QDots as a new breakthrough cadmium free. To be used in TV screens, DOW did a JV. PIs piling in and others took the market cap to over £400 mill. Ups and downs but you get the gist, had DOW walked and there was nothing else on the table.

QFI too heavy oil for ships tech to make it cheaper and so on, JV and deal with Maersk.

That one went to over £400 mill too on the back of the one name and excitement over the potential.

DOW hit near £2, today it's 38p. QFI hit about 48p and now it's 3p.


Last 5 years revenue total QFI £200k losses £25 mill. Nano £9 mill revenue losses £48 mill.

So the 2 once £400 mill plus companies have less than £10 mill combined revenue in the last 5 years and had losses of £73 mill.

The point there is revenue has little to do with the share price and prospect but binary situations can have a heavy impact on the share price.

I'd argue that VRS potential is many multiples of both put together.

Revenue last 5 years £27 mill losses £7 mill. 2.5x the revenue of both of them and just 1/10th of the losses.

So on the potential blue sky share price in terms of the number of companies linking up then VRS is way behind where investors put Nano and QFI a few years back on binary bets.

I don't believe either were targeted for whole country engagement or had DIT staff seconded across.

[luminoso] 30/8/2018 18:47

So, are the DIT guys paid out of Versarien funds or taxpayers funds ?
Like grabster earlier, I believed it was HM Govt paying their wages.

[axotyl] 30/8/2018 18:38

I'm confused about share ownership with a broker.

Surely the majority of 'our' shares are with a nominee account with our broker - the broker owns the shares, not us. Sure, we each have an allocation, but they're not 'ours'.

Some eccentrics may actually own the share certificates but that's not common, is it?

Didn't we discuss this on the crazies thread/board?

And one curious item was the FCA guaranteed what we stuck in originally, up to £85k, but not the current value. So if we'd invested £85k and the broker went bust, even though the shares had decreased in value, say £45k, we'd get back £85k. If they were now worth £100k, we'd still only be able to recoup £85k.

Subject to the parent company of the broker. Wasn't that the gist of it?

[laginaneil] 30/8/2018 18:32

Lovat, thank you for the background to Fest's example.